Making two separate games out of your live service game is making me want to play neither.

please stand up if you really believed poe2, which ggg spent millions of dollars creating, would just end up as a new campaign which many players just see as a neccessary evil to go through and would skip it if it were possible?

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vio wrote:

please stand up if you really believed poe2, which ggg spent millions of dollars creating, would just end up as a new campaign which many players just see as a neccessary evil to go through and would skip it if it were possible?

The campaign still happens, it's just in a different game. People will still see it as some bs to get through in due time.

PoE2 was described at Exilecon 2019 to be essentially 4.0 with new ascendancies and skill gem rework. That's what we believed since that's what we were led to believe for 4 years.

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vio wrote:

please stand up if you really believed poe2, which ggg spent millions of dollars creating, would just end up as a new campaign which many players just see as a neccessary evil to go through and would skip it if it were possible?

I believed what Chris Wilson stood up on that stage in 2019 and said with his own mouth.

Was I wrong to believe him then? Because I'll never believe anything he says again. ='[.]'=

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albert2006xp wrote:

I don't mean to put you on the spot but I already looked at your account in a previous post and the last time you had any number of challenges that indicated significant play time was in Breach league, 7 years ago. You haven't even touched the game since 3.17. I'm glad you have more money than me to buy more supporter packs though, I guess that makes you more important.

no its fine, i think its important to put into context who players are that are giving opinions and feedback, its central to how to interpret the feedback and discussion. im not one of these people who thinks its bad to go profile check someone, thats why my profile is fully open.


i just dont care about challenges in leagues. breach had a cool wings mtx so i bothered to get them, thats why i have challenges in breach. most of the time if i play a league i just play self found with a friend of mine, if there was a challenge to buy a wisdom scroll from a vendor and i didnt happen to buy one because i needed one the challenge would be left undone, i pay 0 attention to them. challenge leagues are about economy etc, i just dont care about them in general, last time i traded in a challenge league i played 4 days, i got 2 mirrors and i went back to standard having never played anything higher than a t1 map, i probably had about 3 challenges randomly while levelling, if even that.


i mostly play by myself in standard league...

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Of course you don't care about just starting over a new game, you haven't spent several years gathering 40/40 totems and dedicating yourself to each league that was released. The don't like PoE comment was not exactly about just the finding items, but literally what you exemplify perfectly. You haven't even played PoE leagues recently and you've probably spent more time defending this decision to sequel stab our game in the gut than you have invested time in POE in the last year+. So yeah that's exactly who PoE2 seems to be for, people that aren't invested in the current PoE we love.

...which is why actually im probably way more invested in what is being left behind than you are. you are a league player, you drop everything every 3 months and start from fresh, so when poe2 starts from fresh thats what you do anyway.

i play in standard, im still playing characters in standard that i made 10 years ago, im still using gear i crafted and mirrored 9 years ago. i have dozens of mirrors worth of gear there that i actually use on builds im playing, that im still playing. youre gonna lose what exactly? theyre gonna let you have ur cosmetic hideout totems you earned in poe2 dude, you just dont get to go to standard and what? look at items you dont even use? look at characters you dont play?

im still playing those characters and using that gear, ive invested more than 15,000 hours of my life over the last decade towards building up what i have in standard league which is my active league i play. its all been for that, its all been for the forever league. i dont give a crap about temp leagues, the only thing i care about in a temp league is what i bring back to standard because im all about the permanent poe, thats my 100% focus.


youre a league player, i dont rly get why you care at all, why dont you play standard if you care so much about your stuff in standard? poe is exactly for people like you, people who play temp leagues and are used to starting from nothing again every league, which is the vast majority of poe players.




i like this change because i want to invest in poe2, but because i also care a lot about poe1, way more than you do, i care about it enough to be happy i can still play it. you want to see it destroyed just so you dont have to go back to desktop and load in again to see your trophy cabinet, thats such a tiny, insignificant little concern and inconvenience.

"

I enjoy finding loot just fine FYI. Loot doesn't need to mean reading thousands of yellow square boxes a day.

i understand m8, i can sympathise with it. im always posting about how much i hate the whole system of rolling maps and having to read their mods etc, i just wanna play the game, i want to get into a flow state and just grind grind grind without some bullshit pulling me out of my zone and forcing me to read a load of bullshit words, its so jarring to my play. i actually prefer the rift system in diablo 3 for that reason alone, i can just grind the thing without all this faffing pulling me out of my focus.

im just a loot whore too xD i love items. but way too many drop, theres far too much picking up shit in poe. id like to see 1/10 of the rare items drop, but i will pick up the potentially good ones and look at them. i cant help myself, im a loot addict.

To be honest I didn't assume you played that much Standard simply because it's seems a bit masochistic to want PoE2 under your conditions. Also cause you only linked a stack of 3 mirrors and when I think Standard player I think like a lot of liquid mirrors for some reason.

Yes I might put everything in the museum after 3 months but it's still there. Cool, you get to keep PoE1... but how certain are you of that? Well, you might not care actually if it gets put on life support and doesn't get good new leagues because you literally don't really play the leagues and play Standard.

You can't act like its future isn't in danger once a sequel is released. I'm sure it will be online but in terms of new content, how long will that last?

We played PoE all this time, just packing up and leaving for a new one doesn't feel right to me. Sure, they probably could transfer over the totems, but I'm not okay with losing content. League mechanics, the Scion, crafting as we know it? No. You have to stick with PoE1 to get to play the PoE we actually care about and invested time into, and that might suffer. I very much need an active economy to have any fun in the game so that could be in danger with them making a direct competitor. Yes, staggered leagues and all that but people don't have the will and time to play twice the amount they played before. They know that, Chris knows that, he gave that whole GDC talk about giving people time to chill and not burn out then bringing them back for the next league.

So all this uncertainty, all this wasted development that could've been used on PoE, for what? For another ARPG? No thank you. And I don't even honestly trust it will be any good anyway. Because they seem more focused on pointless things like campaign, these random bosses that will become literal forgettable map bosses we kill while watching a youtube video, while literally removing a lot of the crafting stuff by the looks of things. More focused on the idea of the ARPG in their minds like filling flasks at a well for literally no reason other than their head RP of the action, or looking at loot on the ground which I already explained I'm completely over. Have you played D4? It's exhausting how much you have to look at loot, you spend so much time not in combat it's almost offensive. Lose a single league mechanic that I've gotten used to and it would just feel so bad. Lose divination cards... Wow, I really hope they don't do that one too because that would be crazy. It's just not PoE and they know it's not because they wouldn't have been forced to give us the old version and I'm sure that's not an easy thing for them to commit to.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

...which is why actually im probably way more invested in what is being left behind than you are. you are a league player, you drop everything every 3 months and start from fresh, so when poe2 starts from fresh thats what you do anyway.

i play in standard, im still playing characters in standard that i made 10 years ago, im still using gear i crafted and mirrored 9 years ago. i have dozens of mirrors worth of gear there that i actually use on builds im playing, that im still playing. youre gonna lose what exactly? theyre gonna let you have ur cosmetic hideout totems you earned in poe2 dude, you just dont get to go to standard and what? look at items you dont even use? look at characters you dont play?

THIS! This is exactly what the guy you respond to simply doesn't comprehend, and actively refuses to comprehend. I don't even know what he wants, and I don't even think HE knows what he wants. His "totems" are indicative of how he plays: enjoying the reset every 3 months. PoE 2 is simply another reset. Not a single thing is lost.

The only time he can complain about his "totems" being lost is if GGG decides to close the PoE 1 servers for good and legit kill the game so you can't even launch it anymore. That HAS happened to games in the past, but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon to PoE. Will the devs eventually stop updating PoE 1, ABSOLUTELY. That is inevitable, especially now with PoE 2 on the horizon. But closing the server won't happen for a LONG time. All the time investment in PoE 1 isn't going anywhere with a separate PoE 2. And especially as a league player, the PoE experience doesn't change one bit.

The experience you gained playing PoE 1 will undoubtedly be useful in PoE 2. It isn't just gone. The ONLY THING that's gone is....having other people see your mtx unless they work in PoE 2. That is the ONLY "totem-like" change. No one but yourself gives a damn about your history of 40/40 or lvl 100 characters. No one. They can't even see any of that in-game. If they really matter to you, those achievements are STILL THERE.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

...which is why actually im probably way more invested in what is being left behind than you are. you are a league player, you drop everything every 3 months and start from fresh, so when poe2 starts from fresh thats what you do anyway.

i play in standard, im still playing characters in standard that i made 10 years ago, im still using gear i crafted and mirrored 9 years ago. i have dozens of mirrors worth of gear there that i actually use on builds im playing, that im still playing. youre gonna lose what exactly? theyre gonna let you have ur cosmetic hideout totems you earned in poe2 dude, you just dont get to go to standard and what? look at items you dont even use? look at characters you dont play?

THIS! This is exactly what the guy you respond to simply doesn't comprehend, and actively refuses to comprehend. I don't even know what he wants, and I don't even think HE knows what he wants. His "totems" are indicative of how he plays: enjoying the reset every 3 months. PoE 2 is simply another reset. Not a single thing is lost.

The only time he can complain about his "totems" being lost is if GGG decides to close the PoE 1 servers for good and legit kill the game so you can't even launch it anymore. That HAS happened to games in the past, but I don't think it'll happen anytime soon to PoE. Will the devs eventually stop updating PoE 1, ABSOLUTELY. That is inevitable, especially now with PoE 2 on the horizon. But closing the server won't happen for a LONG time. All the time investment in PoE 1 isn't going anywhere with a separate PoE 2. And especially as a league player, the PoE experience doesn't change one bit.

The experience you gained playing PoE 1 will undoubtedly be useful in PoE 2. It isn't just gone. The ONLY THING that's gone is....having other people see your mtx unless they work in PoE 2. That is the ONLY "totem-like" change. No one but yourself gives a damn about your history of 40/40 or lvl 100 characters. No one. They can't even see any of that in-game. If they really matter to you, those achievements are STILL THERE.

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were "done" replying to me. Guess replying to someone else and address me is not replying to me.

Well done arriving at my biggest issue by yourself.

"

Will the devs eventually stop updating PoE 1, ABSOLUTELY. That is inevitable, especially now with PoE 2 on the horizon.

Ding ding ding. Stopping big updates is killing the game. Like you said, I play the reset every 3 months. I require big updates that draw everyone to the game and create a thriving economy to keep enjoying the game.

And what's to say that won't happen to PoE2 in 10 years? The precedent is set that they'd rather just make a new one than work on this one and make it better. You're starting the new game on the precedent that will be replaced and die. Which really hampers my excitement to invest my time in it beyond what I would invest in a more casual game. You guys might be okay with dumping 10k hours and dumping that game in favor of another game in its genre but I am not. Unless the game starts to suck so hard I'm just slowly over it like Runescape but PoE doesn't suck.

One game where everything that's been before transfers means I am comfortable believing it's the same game and that they will always keep the core of the game intact while reworking around it. PoE2 clearly doesn't feel like it is PoE enough to keep it one game, that's according to GGG who made the decision to keep both. So if I want PoE, that's no longer PoE. If I want PoE I have an old game to go to that's got a ticking bomb strapped to its chest.

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albert2006xp wrote:

The precedent is set that they'd rather just make a new one than work on this one and make it better. You're starting the new game on the precedent that will be replaced and die.

That is how all software development is... After a while the software become bloated, inefficient, cludgey, riddled with technical debt, and largely unknown to the current developers. That is the point where you redesign and make a new version more or less from scratch.

GGG would likely have preferred to keep the old software as developing a new version from scratch is expensive, but as so many other software companies found that it was not feasible and probably not even realistically possible.

That you don't like it is irrelevant. The above is pretty much a law of nature in the software world...

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Cyzax wrote:

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albert2006xp wrote:

The precedent is set that they'd rather just make a new one than work on this one and make it better. You're starting the new game on the precedent that will be replaced and die.

That is how all software development is... After a while the software become bloated, inefficient, cludgey, riddled with technical debt, and largely unknown to the current developers. That is the point where you redesign and make a new version more or less from scratch.

GGG would likely have preferred to keep the old software as developing a new version from scratch is expensive, but as so many other software companies found that it was not feasible and probably not even realistically possible.

That you don't like it is irrelevant. The above is pretty much a law of nature in the software world...

This makes sense, but the issue is that both games being the same genre is only natural that they will compete for the same public.

If you see blizzard and riot, they made mobas, shooters card games, auto battle, mmorpgs. Different kind of games to different kind of players.

The decision to create a second arpg might makes sense from a technical view but that decision might end up killing one of the two games because like i said, they will compete with eachother for the same playerbase.

That is what i think, feel free to disagree of course.

Runescape is a good example of a game that they tried to launch the 2 and 3 versions and it didnt work. People still mostly play oldschool runescape to this day.