Making two separate games out of your live service game is making me want to play neither.

"

Raycheetah wrote:

PoE 1 deserves...? What about the players who prefer it? Because, as presented PoE II is NOT to the liking of rather quite a few Exiles. Are we to be shuffled off because we don't play the game GGG created correctly? I think if that's the plan, then GGG are counting on catching lightning in a bottle twice, the passion of a new batch of players. But the players they're planning to court may not be as passionate as we dedicated Exiles who have stuck with this one game for a decade.

I'll play PoE 1 until I no longer want to... Or until GGG shuts it down, if that comes first. ='[.]'=

my thinking behind that one: there is a crowd that likes challenging gameplay and one who likes rewards more than challenges. no judging.

if they are given a choice, a majority will play the casual version. that's why hardcore and ruthless are deserted.

to make poe2, which obviously is a "ruthless light", a success, ggg will have to slowly increase motivations to play it, resulting in a slow death of the poe1 population.

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personally i hate fomo (fear of missing out) and rather permanently fail progressing in my few playtime than being stuck in endgame at some point, waiting for the "drop that never comes".
i played crucible sc only cause my friends played it occasionally and i eventually got stuck in there.

crucible has been one of the worst leagues i ever played, only topped by harvest => the promise of massive power creep as a low hanging fruit which you eventually couldn't get.

"

vio wrote:

my thinking behind that one: there is a crowd that likes challenging gameplay and one who likes rewards more than challenges. no judging.

if they are given a choice, a majority will play the casual version. that's why hardcore and ruthless are deserted.

to make poe2, which obviously is a "ruthless light", a success, ggg will have to slowly increase motivations to play it, resulting in a slow death of the poe1 population.

---

personally i hate fomo (fear of missing out) and rather permanently fail progressing in my few playtime than being stuck in endgame at some point, waiting for the "drop that never comes".
i played crucible sc only cause my friends played it occasionally and i eventually got stuck in there.

crucible has been one of the worst leagues i ever played, only topped by harvest => the promise of massive power creep as a low hanging fruit which you eventually couldn't get.

Hardcore is dead but theres at least one easy thing they could try that i've posted only a few hundred times:

There's no reason to join hardcore given its setup in a league environment unless its your intended final destination and as a consequence of this many players would not consider trying it and play the default or (easy) mode but if they were to transfer hardcore-temp-league players who die to standard-temp-league then you would see more player engagement for a wider skill variety because knowing they would go to their intended final destination when they die many would be curious to see how far they could get, toss in optional party-mode so if anyone dies you all die and BAM you'll have too many damned people in hardcore just for the group-rip and a few lols.. some of which would return to actually play it however.

So this stuff is so infinitely infuriating for me when they just left hardcore like that for this entire time and to see Ruthless come into being and im like what was the point, I'm a standard player and i could see how badly hardcore was being treated so for many years now i've been begging GGG to do something about it.. Ruthless definitely wasn't the solution.

That Ruthless Light bit of your post truly paints a gruesome picture which i hope never comes to pass, too good of a game to end up like that and the dream is that both games continue to do well and we just have more exiles to jam with someday in a unified endgame.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

transfer hardcore-temp-league players who die to standard-temp-league then you would see more player engagement for a wider skill variety

would definitely buff hc numbers, everybody gets a shot, i like it ;)

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my suggestion has been to remove hc and replace it by all players playing softcore and having some very rewarding areas being in hardcore mode.

you also get 'a' shot at the good stuff, harhar.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

Hardcore is dead but theres at least one easy thing they could try that i've posted only a few hundred times:

There's no reason to join hardcore given its setup in a league environment unless its your intended final destination and as a consequence of this many players would not consider trying it and play the default or (easy) mode but if they were to transfer hardcore-temp-league players who die to standard-temp-league then you would see more player engagement for a wider skill variety because knowing they would go to their intended final destination when they die many would be curious to see how far they could get, toss in optional party-mode so if anyone dies you all die and BAM you'll have too many damned people in hardcore just for the group-rip and a few lols.. some of which would return to actually play it however.

So this stuff is so infinitely infuriating for me when they just left hardcore like that for this entire time and to see Ruthless come into being and im like what was the point, I'm a standard player and i could see how badly hardcore was being treated so for many years now i've been begging GGG to do something about it.. Ruthless definitely wasn't the solution.

That Ruthless Light bit of your post truly paints a gruesome picture which i hope never comes to pass, too good of a game to end up like that and the dream is that both games continue to do well and we just have more exiles to jam with someday in a unified endgame.

If hardcore worked like that, even I might give it a try! =^[.]^=

Letting everyone start in HC is bad since it somewhat nullifies the meaning/identity of the HC league and just kinda turns it into a challenge mode for SC players to see how long they can last before making it back home. It would mess with the HC economy, too. I think going back to standard is way too iconic to ever do away with. HC is a challenge mode for people who want that challenge, if you really want to play HC, just play it. Don't bastardize it. I say this as someone who has around 4k hours on SC and never even touched HC.

no one is stopping you :)

"

jrv209 wrote:

Letting everyone start in HC is bad since it somewhat nullifies the meaning/identity of the HC league and just kinda turns it into a challenge mode for SC players to see how long they can last before making it back home. It would mess with the HC economy, too. I think going back to standard is way too iconic to ever do away with. HC is a challenge mode for people who want that challenge, if you really want to play HC, just play it. Don't bastardize it. I say this as someone who has around 4k hours on SC and never even touched HC.

Nullifying the identity? Nothing is going to nullify that more than nobody playing it and worse if the whole of PoE1 dies its hardcore is a part of that so we need to stop thinking like tribes and start thinking like people playing the same game in different ways.. Even as a purely standard player i would advocate all the time for HC to see more support from GGG because it was failing and i couldn't take the vibe coming off the hardcore players like they were just giving up and that was ages go.

It would mess with the hc economy? If people can't cut it they'll exit the hardcore economy on their own... and then how do you think Standard felt for 10+ years being treated as a trash league and its economy subject to not only hardcore literally dumping items they didn't care about into but also from their challenge-leagues too even mid-league allowing them to sell items ahead of standard-challenge-league players in their home gamemode up to almost 3 months in advance.

Also the turning it into a challenge mode for SC players? What is it now if not literally the same thing but just for hardcore people at the expense of standard? My model adds natural growth to hardcore, removes age old exploits and also offers exciting alternatives for a wide range of player skill levels and content creators to really challenge themselves where they might have just kept playing "bonk the chaos orb" for all of eternity.

also on the game hours:

That's just the steam hours lol.


Anyway back at the original topic, This is all what im talking about, All of this division will literally be the end of whatever good there was to be found here in this game.

It has slowly eroded the games soul for years and i thought maybe they would take care of those things which are foundational elements of PoE but here we are with Ruthless which is a hardcore replacement for apparently 5 people?

What do ya say exiles? shouldn't we try and find a way we all win? together?

Cant wait. Gonna play the hell outta both.

"

Raycheetah wrote:

If hardcore worked like that, even I might give it a try! =^[.]^=

if i m not wrong, when you die in hardcore your stash remains, thus you can build better, stronger characters in hardcore (based off of memory)

i might be wrong.

constantly creating hardcore characters that transfer to "temp softcore" could be messy when transferring stashes.

but if talking purely character wise, yeah, that would be the ONLY way for me to try hardcore.

They don't do that because it means you get players in HC that don't actually want to be there because there isn't a cost associated.

Nor does this enliven the missing part of trade because an overwhelming majority of players will never reach the area where they contribute anything, it just creates a low end circus for garbage gear and potential RMT.

The reason HC is quiet is a very similar reason to why standard is quiet - It is just a secondary mode for GGG all of their balance concerns go into SC. This wasn't always the case HC used to be considered quite heavily when changes were made.

These days league mechanics are always overtuned, boss content is punishing to worse and has a SC specified droprate plus they are heavily weighted towards being modded to make it even harder. It just isn't a game made for HC anymore, HC is an offshoot mode for those few of us that can't play an arpg without consequence or it gets boring.

They are much better keeping SC players in SC where they intend them to be and they can derive the most enjoyment