Change % damage from traps to flat damage in lab already.

@OP: Agree with you in concept. Numbers and forum posts do support your claim that HC population is negatively affected by lab/trials.

Unfortunately there are many "trap fans" here who do not appear to have the capacity or willingness of even understanding the purpose of this thread.

@OP: You are however spreading some misinformation about traps. Not all "rules" are disabled by them. And life regeneration is not the only thing which helps.

Personally speaking this trap hip hop stuff is not the game which I want to play. It is not the PoE which I started playing some time ago. I also think that the concept of monsters + traps in the labyrinth is totally misimplemented. Monsters should be a threat and not just a way to get flask/endurance charges. The only threat monsters (barring Izaro) now pose is that they can block the way if one does not have phasing or movement skill. Other than that monsters are a resource and traps are a threat. How it should be is that traps are following "the rules" (instead of breaking them in a nonsensical manner as is the case) and monsters should at least be on par in terms of threat level. It would have been easy to use the already existing "random map mods" concept for the uber labyrinth. The Sentinels are a bit in this direction but they do not do the job very well. Mostly they do not have much relevance and just make traps somewhat harder.

"

Brockston wrote:

Traps are hardly a threat. I rarely die from them.

Maybe you missed the "hardcore" part of the thread?

In support of the claims of the OP:
Just look at the labyrinth leaderboards. How many people are doing it in HC?
Currently there are 581 entries for uber lab in PSC and only 45 in PHC.
Yesterday 57 in PHC vs 785 in PSC.
Compare this with former (pre labyrinth) player numbers in HC vs SC. The consequence is very clear: HC players hate it. Given that it is very rewarding to do its pretty obvious that this could well be the primary reason for the dwindling HC population.

Edit: And 31 of those 45 PHC uber lab entries are Juggernauts!

"

Zrevnur wrote:

Maybe you missed the "hardcore" part of the thread?

How does that make any difference, he rarely dies from them and I bet he doesn't have a character built for HC. People do the challenge in both leagues, the league in which you are in makes no difference whatsoever.

All OP is doing is spreading misinformation and blatantly complaining the only way to do the lab is this or that, which is 100% false. Avoid the traps and learn the pattern mechanics, you know the things you have to do for the other content in the game, well you did at least at one point.


Number of post doesn't support shit. Look at that information, look at the people posting that information, these are players that will stop at nothing to spread misinformation and make "claims" based on observations, but ignore others that point out flaws in their "observations"

"

Unfortunately there are many "trap fans" here who do not appear to have the capacity or willingness of even understanding the purpose of this thread.

The purpose of this thread, is just like the other lab threads a QQ because people are to fucking stupid to learn the challenge. GOTTA USE HIGH REGEN BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY THING THAT WORKS /s


Hardcore player complaining about a challenge is fucking priceless.

"

Zrevnur wrote:

In support of the claims of the OP:
Just look at the labyrinth leaderboards. How many people are doing it in HC?
Currently there are 581 entries for uber lab in PSC and only 45 in PHC.
Yesterday 57 in PHC vs 785 in PSC.
Compare this with former (pre labyrinth) player numbers in HC vs SC. The consequence is very clear: HC players hate it. Given that it is very rewarding to do its pretty obvious that this could well be the primary reason for the dwindling HC population.

The league is over 2 months in, race season going on.

Go back to perandus league and compare, o wait you can't because its the uber lab.


The consequence is very clear, HC players don't want to take the risk, you think its very rewarding and it can be, but if you don't make a build for it in HC its only a matter of time before you die.

Go back and look at perandus league this far in and compare it to the merc lab.

Again you are just as bad as OP, looking at one set of data and saying it must be that it can't possibly be anything else.

"

goetzjam wrote:

How does that make any difference, he rarely dies from them and I bet he doesn't have a character built for HC. People do the challenge in both leagues, the league in which you are in makes no difference whatsoever.

"Rarely" dying to them is way too often obviously. I do not understand how you could sensibly argue otherwise.
Obviously the league makes a major difference. "Rarely" dying is fine for SC but pretty much unacceptable for HC.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Unfortunately there are many "trap fans" here who do not appear to have the capacity or willingness of even understanding the purpose of this thread.

The purpose of this thread, is just like the other lab threads a QQ because people are to fucking stupid to learn the challenge.

Guess this makes you one those which do not (want?) to understand the point of the thread. Lets try to put it into a few words: HC population is dwindling. Numbers are out, try argue if you want. There is indication (see my posts) that lab is one of the culprits.
The OP does not want HC population to dwindle. So the suggestion is to change the lab. In terms of this it is completely irrelevant if the players who leave do so for this reason or that reason. Such as:
a) their connection is too bad to play in the lab
b) they are stupid, incompetent and unwilling to adjust to the lab
c) they want to play a different kind of game
d) xyz
It simply does not matter if the "fault" lies with the player, with GGG or elsewhere.
The relevant argument is that changing the labyrinth will improve HC player numbers. Of course I do not know if this is true or not. But you appear unwilling or unable to even get the argument. So you argue against all kind of other things which in terms of the argument are pretty much irrelevant.

"

goetzjam wrote:

The consequence is very clear, HC players don't want to take the risk, you think its very rewarding and it can be, but if you don't make a build for it in HC its only a matter of time before you die.

Go back and look at perandus league this far in and compare it to the merc lab.

If you have specifc numbers supporting your claims (which claim I am unsure) then just point them out. I do not know what you are arguing here even.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Again you are just as bad as OP, looking at one set of data and saying it must be that it can't possibly be anything else.

Instead of doing some vague "meta critique" vs my post you could provide your own set of data. You have shown no data. I have shown numbers.

"

Zrevnur wrote:

In support of the claims of the OP:
Just look at the labyrinth leaderboards. How many people are doing it in HC?
Currently there are 581 entries for uber lab in PSC and only 45 in PHC.
Yesterday 57 in PHC vs 785 in PSC.
Compare this with former (pre labyrinth) player numbers in HC vs SC. The consequence is very clear: HC players hate it. Given that it is very rewarding to do its pretty obvious that this could well be the primary reason for the dwindling HC population.

Edit: And 31 of those 45 PHC uber lab entries are Juggernauts!

Firstly, you ignore that 5 times as many players play psc as phc. So number of people in each lab ladder reflects that. 50 people in the phc ladder would be equivalent of 250 people in the psc ladder, numerically speaking. Secondly you ignore that hardcore players playstyle is different. What percentage of hardcore players run anything hard? All the hardcore people I know skip risky areas and bosses and play easier things. How many phc players ran Atziri or dangerous map bosses compared to psc? That doesn't necessarily mean they hate something. They just don't want to risk it. And as has been stated before, there are other changes between the last time they gave numbers and this time that surely also affect the hardcore population. So while the lab is probably a factor, how big of a factor is unknown.

Why has permanent hardcore always had a fraction of the hardcore challenge league? Because hardcore players play differentlyamd have different goals. They come in, complete their goals or die, and then leave until the next league. It's always been that way. Hardcore players know permanence is not really a thing. So comparing numbers from one week to numbers from another week when hundreds of weeks have passed without numbers doesn't prove anything.

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MrTremere wrote:

As I see it, people are much more likely to fail the labyrinth on a battle with Izaro than on the traps (I often help people on one of the three first lab, and the reason they require help is because they can't survive against Izaro).

Agreed, the real challenge is Izaro, at least for softcore.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Hardcore player complaining about a challenge is fucking priceless.

You always seem to miss the point. The "complaint" is that labyrinth has driven away his fellow HC players. Please try to pay better attention.

"

mark1030 wrote:

Firstly, you ignore that 5 times as many players play psc as phc.

I assumed people arguing here knew this number. You do. So this assumption was not far off I guess?

"

mark1030 wrote:

And as has been stated before, there are other changes between the last time they gave numbers and this time that surely also affect the hardcore population. So while the lab is probably a factor, how big of a factor is unknown.

I fully agree with you here. In no way do I claim to know that lab is the only (or even most dominating) reason for HC people to leave - assuming this is even the case. However: The numbers do support such claims. "Support" does not mean "proof".