The amout of vendor trash makes me want to quit this game

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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b15h09 wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

and there is no need too, i like standard just the way it is

So, you're against a loot filter? Cause all this crap is intertwined. :P

i would prefer they implement a better drop system then a filter , however the realistic side of me is saying a filter might be easier to implement

'rolls eyes'

You play in freaking standard man (not that is a problem, you typically have godly gear when you do). The loot system works in the leagues, it truly does, the amount of "garbage" that players speak of on the screen is much less then they will care to admit. No amount of drop system fix will make finding items in standard actually feel rewarding, the only time you feel "happy" is if you get a tier 1 or maybe even a tier 2 unqiue that hasn't been butchered yet, even so that doesn't happen very often.

So many white items hold value and to those that wish to collect on that value have the access to it (even without stacking any mf)

leather belts
gavels
agates
so many of the other jewlery, pretty much anything and everything tbh
high ilevel rustics, chain, ect

High ilevel crafting weapon bases
ambushers
harbinger
Ect

For those reasons alone GGG should improve the filters of what players want to see, before removing the options for some players to actually make value on things they find now.

Just a thought: Why can't we seriously tone back the amount of white and low level drops? This would affect chrom, chance, and chisel recipes the most, and they can be adjusted over time to find the new "sweet spot." Otherwise, when proposing no low level drops, the answer is always "because low level items, especially uniques, need to be able to drop with a higher iLvl for sockets." But.. what would be wrong if these items were super scarce?

Imo, greater scarcity for GG twink items in high level areas would be an improvement in and of itself, as would cutting the screen clutter in ~half.

The only major drawback (assuming recipe issues could be resolved elsewhere) would be fewer good crafting bases (at all levels), but at the same time there'd be fewer not-good crafting bases as well..

you would kill of animate weapon builds!

*raises fist*

This could be fixed by allowing blue weapons to be animated as white ones, just saying it's a concern.

You would also disable chance orbs by a fair amount. Making the bases so rare and as a result the price to buy them in bulk to high to comfortably use them, or even "pick them up" by the community.

Would have to be tested i imagine.

Peace,

-Boem-

Not sure that fewer good crafting bases is really a problem, since 'crafting' is such a marginal part of the game. If the gear were rolling better stats, they increase the chance of dropping as something worth throwing orbs at without needing a white item. And there's always scours as an alternative. If it's a huge issue, up the scour drop rate.

Seriously, I can't imagine more than a percent of a percent of the white trash that drops is actually used for crafting, and it's probably far far less. Surely this can be improved.

@Boem: Aye, I acknowledged that. I was posting from mobile and got the 5% warning, so I kind of rushed. I'll briefly recap my thoughts and concerns and try to make an actual point ^-^

It's nothing new, but specifically, what I am proposing is: significantly reduce (~50% less) the drop rate of white items and excessively reduce (>= 75% less) the drop rate of items <= some function of zone level.

In particular, I'd estimate recipes account for roughly 50% (+/- some) of a player's chrom, chance, and chisel income. To a lesser extent, 40% quality for scraps and stones, but they are very plentiful as drops and I don't think the recipes make much difference except maybe the first ~10 hours into a new league.

I'd suggest only slight changes at first, watch the data, and gradually adjust recipes over time to net roughly the same income for the orbs impacted the most.

E.g., the chrom recipe could be supplemented with "1 tricolor = 1 chrom; n tricolor of the same item slot = n+1 chroms" where n might begin at n = 6, and is lowered over time until the new sweet spot is found.

What would be impacted the most is finding appropriate bases for crafting, especially vendor crafting weapons from ~lv20-60. IMO, the vendors can compensate for this though by adjusting their inventory (?by skewing their inventory to display items of more relevant ilvl to your quest progression within their act, and maybe adjusting their refresh rate slightly?). Late/end game base item crafting I have absolutely no issue with scarce bases. Likewise, I have no issue with super low level 4L+ or 4L+ twink uniques being more scarce.

All changes and rebalance accounted for, we net:
--roughly the same orb income
--slightly more difficulty in finding a crafting base while leveling
--more difficulty in finding a crafting base late game and beyond
--significantly more scarce high ilvl low base level items
--significantly fewer items on screen at one time

The increased scarcity, I predict, will scarcely be noticed because those items are excessively abundant already, excepting situations where
--streaks of luck will be much more noticeable
--players are farming for items with levels too disparate to the zone they're in (e.g., hoping for that lucky dream frags or tabula while farming docks)

What this doesn't do is:
--increase the rate of finding good rare items
--increase the rate of any drops of any kind, for that matter

IMO, a whole lot of good, for a very little bit of potential bad, and most problems can be compensated for via slight rebalances elsewhere. The rest are a mere matter of refocusing players' expectations. And by "mere", I mean, forums gonna bitch no matter what, so fuck em ;)

This comment is about Increased Rarity (IIR) in a reduced drops environment.

White items tend to make good crafting bases or vendor fodder, yellow items may make good finished products (potentially), blue items sit in between not good for any particular purpose. Due to IIR mods, they are fairly safe from elimination through conventional drop adjustment changes. However, they also tend to be the most useless, and therefore one of the most desirable targets to remove toward reduced drops goal. Here is a way I thought of to reduce blue items more than others.

Suppose items generate with a "rarity" score 0 through 1000 on the base roll, but further adjusted by IIR. 0-599 makes the item white, 600-899 makes it blue, 900+ makes it yellow. Here's what I propose: In Cruel those ranges are adjusted to squeeze blue, and in Merciless those values are adjusted further to squeeze blue even more. The table would be something like this:
Difficulty..Blue...Yellow
Normal......600....900
Cruel.........650....875
Merciless...700....850

This reflects that as the game progresses, blues become increasingly valueless, and therefore increasingly less likely to drop. Down from approximately 1/3 of drops to 1/6. Probably could squeeze them more, too, 1/6th is a lot of estate for something that is almost guaranteed to be garbage.

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goetzjam wrote:

a


'rolls eyes'

You play in freaking standard man (not that is a problem, you typically have godly gear when you do). The loot system works in the leagues, it truly does, the amount of "garbage" that players speak of on the screen is much less then they will care to admit. No amount of drop system fix will make finding items in standard actually feel rewarding, the only time you feel "happy" is if you get a tier 1 or maybe even a tier 2 unqiue that hasn't been butchered yet, even so that doesn't happen very often.

So many white items hold value and to those that wish to collect on that value have the access to it (even without stacking any mf)

leather belts
gavels
agates
so many of the other jewlery, pretty much anything and everything tbh
high ilevel rustics, chain, ect

High ilevel crafting weapon bases
ambushers
harbinger
Ect

For those reasons alone GGG should improve the filters of what players want to see, before removing the options for some players to actually make value on things they find now.

im not actually talking about my standard experiences, this problem was most apparent back when i played in temp leagues, i had similar quantity back then as well.

I have already accepted that everything dropped in standard is garbage and am fine with it that way. My issue is exclusively related to temp leagues when finding the good drops actually matters (since more things sell).

When i say trash items i dont even mean rares or shit uniques , i still am pretty much only referring to worthless whites and blues that still occupy 80% of all drops .

80% worthless drops vs 95% worthless drops is not all that massive of a leap in terms of garbage on screen tba. and that is what the numbers are between temp and standard for me.

I usually have my mf setup in stone by the end of week one in a temp league i give a damn in anyway.

and dont worry about your eyes , mine fell out of their sockets a few threads ago

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

a


'rolls eyes'

You play in freaking standard man (not that is a problem, you typically have godly gear when you do). The loot system works in the leagues, it truly does, the amount of "garbage" that players speak of on the screen is much less then they will care to admit. No amount of drop system fix will make finding items in standard actually feel rewarding, the only time you feel "happy" is if you get a tier 1 or maybe even a tier 2 unqiue that hasn't been butchered yet, even so that doesn't happen very often.

So many white items hold value and to those that wish to collect on that value have the access to it (even without stacking any mf)

leather belts
gavels
agates
so many of the other jewlery, pretty much anything and everything tbh
high ilevel rustics, chain, ect

High ilevel crafting weapon bases
ambushers
harbinger
Ect

For those reasons alone GGG should improve the filters of what players want to see, before removing the options for some players to actually make value on things they find now.

im not actually talking about my standard experiences, this problem was most apparent back when i played in temp leagues, i had similar quantity back then as well.

I have already accepted that everything dropped in standard is garbage and am fine with it that way. My issue is exclusively related to temp leagues when finding the good drops actually matters (since more things sell).

When i say trash items i dont even mean rares or shit uniques , i still am pretty much only referring to worthless whites and blues that still occupy 80% of all drops .

80% worthless drops vs 95% worthless drops is not all that massive of a leap in terms of garbage on screen tba. and that is what the numbers are between temp and standard for me.

I usually have my mf setup in stone by the end of week one in a temp league i give a damn in anyway.

and dont worry about your eyes , mine fell out of their sockets a few threads ago

I am disputing the fact that people think all those whites are useless, they really aren't. I don't care to list every single white that has value, but I'll copy the list from above and add more:



If anything rares offer less value to players then these white bases, why some people can't understand that white item + alch can = rare with good stats idk. I already get WAY more alchs then I ever use, so i'd like to keep the ability to pickup white items to alch.

Simply put everyone wants to see a little bit different things, its not that "too many items drop" its that some people don't care about bases or want the "cutter reduced no matter what the cost"

The cost can be very simple and satisfy both parties, add a filter, allow players to pick what they want to see (and not see). No need to make less items occur just because a few people don't want to see stuff on the screen (btw I play with items always displayed on the screen, I only turn it off in maps like the unique crypt one, how mad are you?)

So goetz isn't talking about abstract people. I pick up many whites. I'll transmute ambushers, imbued wands, harbingers, vaal specters (or whatever weapon I might need for my personal build), vaal chest and hubris. I would ID most blue jewelry, ones with 2 tier one mods I'd throw a regal at (then turn it back into a regal). Last league I alched much more jewelry but this one I have only been doing diamond rings and onyx ammys. Rampage I alched just about any piece of jewelry and was making 24 regals a day. I'm also picking up agates and leather belts to either chance myself or sell off.

Of course there's also chrom items, 6s, gavels, rockbreakers and stonehammers. I pick up A LOT of white and blue shit, especially when playing higher maps.

Which is why I'm still wondering how a loot filter works. As I want all this shit in 75+ maps, but don't want most of it in lower areas. Like I said it would basically have to have an individual toggle for every single item, which I don't think is a good idea.

So it's easy to ask for a filter but what will the user have control over? How is it going to be used?

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Moosifer wrote:

So goetz isn't talking about abstract people. I pick up many whites. I'll transmute ambushers, imbued wands, harbingers, vaal specters (or whatever weapon I might need for my personal build), vaal chest and hubris. I would ID most blue jewelry, ones with 2 tier one mods I'd throw a regal at (then turn it back into a regal). Last league I alched much more jewelry but this one I have only been doing diamond rings and onyx ammys. Rampage I alched just about any piece of jewelry and was making 24 regals a day. I'm also picking up agates and leather belts to either chance myself or sell off.

Of course there's also chrom items, 6s, gavels, rockbreakers and stonehammers. I pick up A LOT of white and blue shit, especially when playing higher maps.

Which is why I'm still wondering how a loot filter works. As I want all this shit in 75+ maps, but don't want most of it in lower areas. Like I said it would basically have to have an individual toggle for every single item, which I don't think is a good idea.

So it's easy to ask for a filter but what will the user have control over? How is it going to be used?

The loot filter will have to be very customizable. It probably won't be easy to do, but that doesn't mean they should neglect to do it vs nerfing items (yet again)