Feedback and Suggestions - The amout of vendor trash makes me want to quit this game - Forum

" johnKeys wrote: it is about risk/reward, a lot more than it is about quality vs. quantity. as long as RNG seems so completely unbiased, and completely out of touch with what the player is doing, what kind of content this is, and how big of a challenge the last fight was compared to all-of-the-above - loot will not be where it needs to be. to put this in BMBI terms: instead of encouraging you to lift that 400-pound massive, menacing solid steel weight, and once you do encourage you to move on to the even-bigger 405-pund one - the game instead encourages you to do a thousand repetitions with tiny 5-pound dumbbells, for the completely random chance of your biceps getting big enough for the 10-pound ones. but you won't get them because they are not in the gym. they are in the marketplace so go trade for them. grind for the sake of grind and trade. and that's unlikely to change because that's exactly what GGG want you to do: grind 'till your fucking brains melt and ooze out of your ears. and then you'll probably collect them, pour them back in, and realise the ugly truth that the only way your brain would go back to a solid state - is to 24/7 trade like this isn't even a fucking ARPG. because all the great ARPG elements GGG worked so damn hard to put in the game - skill tree, gems, mechanics etc' - are almost completely nullified, by their fucking obsession to do whatever it fucking takes, to keep players away from killing monsters. because killing monsters doesn't mean anything. flip a god damned rock and you can get a bloody Shavs out of fucking nowhere. dice GG. solo-strangle your-build's-ultimate-nemesis boss/rare/Bloodlinepack with your bare hands, under-leveled, and get whites and blues with a Hillock base and an equal amount of sockets. trololo. drives me fucking nuts. 2 years of driving me fucking nuts. every. single. time. So, I agree with you - as an abstract concept risk deserves reward. Though, we ARE rewarded, not by items, but by the CHANCE To get items, the more risk the more chances, but chance is rng and as you said you can still find an EX under a stone after killing the most difficult boss ever and get junk rares. So I fight the boss, and I also flip the stones and open the boxes. the more coins you put into that slot machine the higher your chances of a win. If reward was more straight forward and predictable it would totally dictate player behavior, as it stands we don't really know where the next good drop will come from - if we did, that's about ALL we would do. (more deterministic systems are best for single player games IMO for this reason) Let say GGG put in some code to figure out how hard the fight was okay? what if, you got a boost to rarity for every time you got below 20% of your total hp, or if you got hit once for 1/2 your life, or another bonus for every 20 seconds the fight lasted, and another for how many times you used a flask or a bonus for using different skills and some calculation of your character level vs monsters level. you can probably think of many more. if code like that was in the game, we would figure it out, and start dancing around in fights attempting to take damage and make the fight last extra long to try and boost that bonus instead of just fighting it proper. So, as much as I agree with you, I honestly think GGG has the balance about right. I read the forums here and on reddit, I chat with people in game and there is no consensus about whats the best way to farm wealth other then upping your chances by killing fast and efficiently monsters around your character level with the most iir/iiq you can reasonably fit without hurting your DPS/defenses. I'm not sure we can logically ask for anything better. As a matter of fact, because of this system, I DON'T grind, I just play the game and forget worrying about any optional situations I should be putting myself through to get an advantage. Back to the topic - all that ground clutter is nickels and pennies on the casino floor - nobody wants to dig around in that junk when we have full pockets already. However, if you have a keen eye, and take a little time you actually can find some rewards worth picking up, the risk is your time potentially wasted.	Posted by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015, 4:15:46 PM
Why does GGG need some code to know the difficulty of the fight? They just need to look at the ilvl of the loot being dropped, and offer reward chance accordingly and in a rangebound fashion. And of course reduce gear drops by 80%+. Too much shit and it's all trash currently. A much better system to have less shit, but worth picking up cause it could be good shit. No. Calm down. Learn to enjoy losing. Last edited by b15h09 on Mar 12, 2015, 4:52:00 PM	Posted by b15h09 on Mar 12, 2015, 4:44:26 PM Quote this Post
again, here's the problem of 'make the loot not vendor trash': the game is balanced around people who play 10 hours a day if you want not trash loot drop in less than hour of playtime per day, what kind of loot would nolifers have ? this would cause a severe hyperinflation. nolifers would be geared out in two weeks of new leagues of course here come the usual suspects who will surely scream "I wanna crab/slowpoke my way through offline version 20 minutes a day at a time and find MAADDZ loot, why doesnt GGG balance the game around ME ?" ME !	Posted by grepman on Mar 12, 2015, 6:08:44 PM Quote this Post
" grepman wrote: again, here's the problem of 'make the loot not vendor trash': the game is balanced around people who play 10 hours a day if you want not trash loot drop in less than hour of playtime per day, what kind of loot would nolifers have ? this would cause a severe hyperinflation. nolifers would be geared out in two weeks of new leagues of course here come the usual suspects who will surely scream "I wanna crab/slowpoke my way through offline version 20 minutes a day at a time and find MAADDZ loot, why doesnt GGG balance the game around ME ?" ME ! They could and would be catered to so long as the T1 weighting remained in effect. Perhaps even make T1 harder to roll for rough epeen strokage. I care about T1 far less than T6. No. Calm down. Learn to enjoy losing.	Posted by b15h09 on Mar 12, 2015, 6:19:54 PM Quote this Post
" b15h09 wrote: " grepman wrote: again, here's the problem of 'make the loot not vendor trash': the game is balanced around people who play 10 hours a day if you want not trash loot drop in less than hour of playtime per day, what kind of loot would nolifers have ? this would cause a severe hyperinflation. nolifers would be geared out in two weeks of new leagues of course here come the usual suspects who will surely scream "I wanna crab/slowpoke my way through offline version 20 minutes a day at a time and find MAADDZ loot, why doesnt GGG balance the game around ME ?" ME ! They could and would be catered to so long as the T1 weighting remained in effect. Perhaps even make T1 harder to roll for rough epeen strokage. I care about T1 far less than T6. thats fair, but the balance of power will shift a ton. it would be interesting having quirky builds be viable but I dont know...I feel like loot is in a good place for most part. especially with torment ghosts.	Posted by grepman on Mar 12, 2015, 6:51:12 PM Quote this Post
" grepman wrote: the game is balanced around people who play 10 hours a day Not really. It's more like "the game is balanced assuming characters will be played for x hours on average." Or, to put it in terms of your original comment, either 10 hours a day, or 5 hours a day for twice as many days. Also key is the "on average" part. If you trade actively, you might be able to get gear much faster. But someone (or something, if botting is a big problem) had to farm it for you to trade for it. So the average hours played remains about the same globally, even if your share of it is substantially less. This is how drop rates are, and must be, balanced. The designers have to figure out how long players are going to play, and keep stringing things along until then. They know once you have every slot BiS you've won the game and you're done. It is a design question with no right andwer. /played values differ wildly. They can't possibly balance it correctly for everyone. They can just guess how long players will keep at it. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.	Posted by ScrotieMcB on Mar 12, 2015, 7:45:12 PM Quote this Post
" johnKeys wrote: instead of encouraging you to aim for that 400-pound massive, menacing solid steel weight, and once you do (with your teeth), encourage you to move on to the even-bigger 405-pund one - the game instead encourages you to do a thousand repetitions with tiny 5-pound dumbbells, for the completely random chance of your biceps getting big enough for the 10-pound ones. but you won't get them because they are not in the gym. they are in the marketplace so go trade for them. In PoE, Stephen Hawking could project himself directly into the heavyweight lifting championship - and win it. If he traded enough :P " ScrotieMcB wrote: The designers have to figure out how long players are going to play, and keep stringing things along until then. They know once you have every slot BiS you've won the game and you're done. Isnt the other way around - (non)scarcity of gear determines how long will you play? Devs dont have to guess anything, just set scarcity. Unless you meant how long players are still willing to go without carrot... And when you have bis you arent done (with the game), you roll another build. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo on Mar 12, 2015, 8:31:50 PM	Posted by morbo on Mar 12, 2015, 8:24:36 PM Quote this Post
" ScrotieMcB wrote: " grepman wrote: the game is balanced around people who play 10 hours a day Not really. It's more like "the game is balanced assuming characters will be played for x hours on average." Or, to put it in terms of your original comment, either 10 hours a day, or 5 hours a day for twice as many days. eh...the problem is the nolifers dont play the same # of hours as strict casuals. its not 10 hours a day for one day or 5 hours/day for two days. the discrepancy is too much. " This is how drop rates are, and must be, balanced. The designers have to figure out how long players are going to play, and keep stringing things along until then. They know once you have every slot BiS you've won the game and you're done. but I dont see how this comes out of the other two points. again, lets say devs balance it on average. they will still balance it around the 'higher' end rather than lower end. the thing here is they clearly dont want the nolifers to be done with the league in 2-3 weeks. and thats what would happen if they balance it on 'lower' average. " morbo wrote: Isnt the other way around - (non)scarcity of gear determines how long will you play? Devs dont have to guess anything, just set scarcity. Unless you meant how long players are still willing to go without carrot... And when you have bis you arent done (with the game), you roll another build. and devs did set scarcity. so whats the problem ? the problem is that for people who dont play much, the scarcity is not in their favor	Posted by grepman on Mar 12, 2015, 9:59:05 PM Quote this Post
" grepman wrote: and devs did set scarcity. so whats the problem ? the problem is that for people who dont play much, the scarcity is not in their favor The amount of playtime is the big factor, but getting loot (or in general term "wealth") is not just a function of time, ie. how much you play, but also what you play. In addition to playing more than casuals, serious players grind (high) maps with decent IIQ bonus, which results in more items & currency per hour. When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness	Posted by morbo on Mar 13, 2015, 3:05:39 AM Quote this Post
" b15h09 wrote: " Saltychipmunk wrote: and there is no need too, i like standard just the way it is So, you're against a loot filter? Cause all this crap is intertwined. :P i would prefer they implement a better drop system then a filter , however the realistic side of me is saying a filter might be easier to implement	Posted by Saltychipmunk on Mar 13, 2015, 7:50:56 AM Quote this Post