Loot

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Oasisbhrnw wrote:

For what it's worth, I've already had friends tell me they won't play it because of ffa loot. They like playing in groups, but they don't like drama. I'll still play it, good arpgs are few and far between. It would have been nice to play with them though.

even if it stays FFA, they could still play in groups with each other and you, and then you can divide loot however you like in your instance.

I think we have been going around in circles for a while now, I for one know this has come up before:

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It's simple. If you put an option for shared loot nobody will use FFA.

You keep spouting this when in fact, you would choose FFA loot wouldn't you, being so attached to it.


So yes, this is a discussion about FFA vs FFA & shared loot, although the FFA side seems to think we want to force everyone to use shared

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Also there are market share numbers for MMOs and devs can check the top MMOs' loot system. Mostly FFA.

The latest information I could find on western mmorpg's market share (march 2009) put WoW at 58%, so already half of the market share is not FFA only loot. I's definitely a stretch when you say that top MMOs are mostly FFA.

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permaximum wrote:

It's simple. If you put an option for shared loot nobody will use FFA.

that alone tells me it should be an option. if more people would elect to not have FFa loot then the option to not have it need to be there. you compare it to god mode? makes no sense you cant die with god mode, you dont have to deal with grief with the other, the 2 dont relate at all

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permaximum wrote:

It should stay FFA. But my opinion doesn't matter. This is one of those things devs never ever listen to players.

they have already said that they plan to look into this issue since so many have raised concerns with it.

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permaximum wrote:

Also there are market share numbers for MMOs and devs can check the top MMOs' loot system. Mostly FFA.

the top mmo games used shared loot this statement is completely wrong

The amount of drama that comes because a succesful game design option maybe, perhaps, someday could make you be griefed is ridiculous.

Everybody is too afraid of getting a little bit frustrated while playing a game. And that's why the fucking games practically play themselves nowadays - Starcraft 2 campaign comes to mind, WoW too.

It seems like in recent years people learned to play games for a reward, too. The reward isn't having fun with the game itself, but acquiring the Flaming Sword of Swordflame, or an "achievement", or a title... That's the only reason I can imagine why somebody would give up on a game simply because he won't have an anti grief armor in it and, *GASP*, may someday get robbed in it and lose a virtual item.

I seem to have lost every single individual in this entire arguement, who really cares if it's ffa or shared or optioned loot, if the *gameplay* and overall *atmosphere* and *storyline* of the game are worthwhile who gives a flying squirrel if you get the flaming sword of cheeseballs. I'm sure everyone longs for the almighty equipz of eliteness, however it doesn't mean jack if you aren't enjoying yourself while obtaining such item. I think everyone should relax, let the people making the game make the decisions and see how it plays out. If changes need to be made to loot style i'm sure patches can be implemented, as it seems the developers are trying to create the most enjoyable experience for everyone.
Rant Over, thank you. :P

Just like i said before, if there will be option it means no FFA.

For ARPG market share...

Diablo 1 & 2 - FFA
Titan Quest - FFA

Here's the market share numbers for MMOs. (unfortunately april 2008 is the last month)

http://mmogdata.voig.com/voig/ContentList/MMOGDATA/Charts/4.ViewChart?aLanguage=en-us&a5Years=

World of Warcraft - FFA (it's close to FFA than the shared loot, because drops are not guaranteed and there is a roll factor)
Guild Wars - shared
Knight Online - FFA

As for god-mode ting, it's completely relevant. If you could kill all enemies without dying even for once you would do that in a heartbeat, right? That's no different for guaranteed loot.

FFA will stay...

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senescal wrote:

The amount of drama that comes because a succesful game design option maybe, perhaps, someday could make you be griefed is ridiculous.

Everybody is too afraid of getting a little bit frustrated while playing a game. And that's why the fucking games practically play themselves nowadays - Starcraft 2 campaign comes to mind, WoW too.

It seems like in recent years people learned to play games for a reward, too. The reward isn't having fun with the game itself, but acquiring the Flaming Sword of Swordflame, or an "achievement", or a title... That's the only reason I can imagine why somebody would give up on a game simply because he won't have an anti grief armor in it and, *GASP*, may someday get robbed in it and lose a virtual item.

QFT

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permaximum wrote:

World of Warcraft - FFA (it's close to FFA than the shared loot, because drops are not guaranteed and there is a roll factor)
Guild Wars - shared
Knight Online - FFA

Ummm...nobody uses FFA loot in World of Warcraft. They do the Need or Greed roll offs set with round robin (assigned loot). If someone sets the loot to free for all, the group becomes disbanded.

And what is Knight Online? I've never even heard of it, so why would you list it? I think most MMOs these days have options for looting and most of them have a round robin/roll for rare items type of loot system which everyone thinks is fair and even is the default loot setting. I think there's a reason for that.

And just so you know, I'm completely for having an option for different loot, hell, if they want to add an option for cartoony graphics, what's wrong with that? It doesn't mean you have to play it that way, but others get the option to. Same with God mode. So what if I wanted to play with God mode on? Why should you care as long as you don't have to, and as long as my God mode character doesn't have to interact with you at all.

Also, if there was an option to do shared loot and everyone would choose that over FFA loot, well, that seems like it's preferred, so why wouldn't they want that in the game?

There are two sides to this argument right now, and I'm not understanding one of them.

1. People in favor for Free for all only...no options.

2. People in favor of Free for all as well as other more fair options.

Hmm...Seems to me that option 2 will make everyone happy, so why would you choose option 1? I just don't understand why anyone would choose that. It's like Joe Dirt and the indian that has the firework stand only carrying snakes and sparklers.

Joe Dirt: So you're gonna tell me that you don't have no black cats, no Roman Candles, or screaming mimis?
Kicking Wing: No.
Joe Dirt: Oh come on, man. You got no lady fingers, fuzz buttles, snicker bombs, church burners, finger blasters, gut busters, zippity do das, or crap flappers?
Kicking Wing: No, I don't.
Joe Dirt: You're gonna stand there, ownin' a fireworks stand, and tell me you don't have no whistlin' bungholes, no spleen splitters, whisker biscuits, honkey lighters, hoosker doos, hoosker don'ts, cherry bombs, nipsy daisers, with or without the scooter stick, or one single whistlin' kitty chaser?
Kicking Wing: No... because snakes and sparklers are the only ones I like.
Joe Dirt: Well that might be your problem, it's not what you like, it's the consumer.

You just proved that if there is a FFA option nobody will use it just in the case of WoW. Also need/greed system in WoW is different than shared loot. There is a chance factor and drops are not guaranteed just like FFA.

I included Knight Online with WoW and Guild Wars because it's placed 3rd in the market share according to the data. I had played that game for long hours until a few years ago and it has the best pvp combat imo.

Optional loot should not be an option. Everyone will chose the non-risky guarenteed option. If this is a competitive game than there shouldn't be options affecting the gameplay.

Ok, basically there are two groups in this conversation. You and your DBAG friend. While playing a game with FFA like Baldur's gate. You would be the one helping him killing off enemies, resurrecting him, covering him when he goes to a chest. Then there is the other person he is the DBAG that goes to chest and gets the gold, gets all the items, and doesn't care if you die because he can harvest all the loot himself. So people make a choice you are either a DBAG or not. Don't blame us for wanting a option that eliminates that. Sorry for the term DBAG, but i think it is honestly the best term to describe those people.