Diablo Immortal is POE killer

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trixxar wrote:

If you dont play PVP, then who cares how PTW the rest of the game is if it is fun to you?

Although it is not a good sign that they design for free players.

Still probably worth a shot at some point.

Because in those games monetization often dictates design: Like the chance to upgrade gems is probably not based on what is best for the game but what sells most gem upgrades.

Many P2W games also have unusually long grinds just because that encourages spending. Like the moment the diablo 3 RMAH was removed got legendry drops a MASSIVE buff(maybe too much in hindsight but the point still stands)

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Silverpelt wrote:

Blizzard still leading the bandwagon of what game companies shouldn't do. The only decent thing they released this past decade is Diablo 2 resurrected.

Hey dont forget about WoW TBC classic. If it even can be called release.

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Silverpelt wrote:

stuff

Fair enough. I think judging it from a streamer's experience rather than for yourself was an error but then again I'm not really of the generation that can't judge games for themselves and need a talking head to do it for them. I'm also a fairly slow, take-your-time sort of player who can and will get a lot of playtime out of content if it interests me, whereas I am willing to bet a streamer isn't even paying that much attention to the story. So basically what I get from that portion of your response is, 'it's only a few hours because I watched a streamer do it'. I'm sorry, have you heard the old internet term YMMV?

YMMV.

You are, of course, well within your rights to dislike Blizzard and pay to win and gacha. These are all fairly despicable things, as I've made clear.

None of that invalidates what I said, which is that DESPITE its horrific p2w terminus, Diablo Immortal is a fairly fun play through for Diablo 2 veterans. Are you a Diablo 2 veteran? Did you play it when it came out, and get to know characters like Kashya and Akara? Their inclusion alone shows a more authentic approach to creating a follow-on to Diablo 2 than 3 ever did.

Look, you're not the target audience; that much is abundantly clear. So why this need to bang on about it? You have PoE. Stick to that.

As for the endgame comment? I call BS. I don't think that many ARPG players were as endgame focused as PoE has made them. Outside of MMOs, it wasn't that big a deal with ARPGs -- we didn't call the D2 five act progression 'tutorial mode' or want to skip it because there was *nothing else* to the game. No 'Maps', no 'Raids' as such. And this is true of all ARPGs right up until PoE. Not even D3 had a coherent endgame until it nicked the Maps idea to create Rifts.

Thank you for your reply but I see no need to continue this. :)

Considering the normal player drops during the week Diablo Immortal only took 1-2k Steam players out of 50k. Chris was right they're not pulling from the same pool of players as PoE.

I'm 45. I've played D2 at release date ad nauseam. I started on the (FLT/Fairlight or Razor) cracked release before buying the real game.


I don't need to try the game to "know", I've played enough gacha like games to 'know' at first glance how predatory DI will be by watching Asmongold's stream. Like I already said, I'm not going to try to to give Blizzard validation for turning Diablo into a predatory p2w.

You say you played the closed beta, but did you try the final release with all the predatory P2W bs?

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As for the endgame comment? I call BS. I don't think that many ARPG players were as endgame focused as PoE has made them. Outside of MMOs, it wasn't that big a deal with ARPGs -- we didn't call the D2 five act progression 'tutorial mode' or want to skip it because there was *nothing else* to the game. No 'Maps', no 'Raids' as such. And this is true of all ARPGs right up until PoE. Not even D3 had a coherent endgame until it nicked the Maps idea to create Rifts.

You can call what I said bs, GGG didn't invent the wheel. They didn't even reinvent it, they just use it. It goes without saying that endgame is not just a Arpg thing. They just splashed a better endgame on a ARPG. Before PoE even existed there was WoW, Final Fantasy XI, and Everquest (I've never played that one, tho) that had a farmable end game.

Edit: My point is, people were already used to do endgame in other RPG games. GGG just added it to a Arpg and now Blizzard with DI want to use that crave for endgame to predatorily milk its users. Unless you pay to win, it can take a year or two, or more, to reach the end game in a game like DI.


You're sure you like the Diablo franchise? I don't mean to sound like an ass but I had to Air Wick my screen after reading your two posts. That was a load of bs to try to make a turd look good.

Why arent you playing DI instead of wasting your time here if it's so good?

Yeah, I definitely don't need to reply to more bs.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Fair enough. I think judging it from a streamer's experience rather than for yourself was an error but then again I'm not really of the generation that can't judge games for themselves and need a talking head to do it for them. I'm also a fairly slow, take-your-time sort of player who can and will get a lot of playtime out of content if it interests me, whereas I am willing to bet a streamer isn't even paying that much attention to the story. So basically what I get from that portion of your response is, 'it's only a few hours because I watched a streamer do it'. I'm sorry, have you heard the old internet term YMMV?

It was weird watching Zizaran complain about the PTW aspects when he had a whole 2 hours into the game. He also said he is not a mobile gamer and complained about the beta pc client which is buggy as hell.

Being able to play a Diablo MMO casually on my couch is amazing.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Fair enough. I think judging it from a streamer's experience rather than for yourself was an error...

If a person really wants to take a stance against predatory businesses, he doesn't really need to try it - because the gameplay doesn't matter at all - the principle does. A LOT of the worst sinners on the market have a solid gameplay loop, hell - they need to, to suck you in.

The more I read/hear/see about D:I's predatory system, how much you CAN spend - and how much you HAVE to spend to unlock everything, send shivers down my spine. Hell, some purchases even gets indirectly cancelled if you don't log in every day? PLEASE debunk this for me, because if it's true, God damn.

And every time I read "...well, it's just how the mobile market is", my ears send out big clouds of smoke, even though I've probably said so myself back in the days. The mobile market IS like that, because it CAN be like that, because people are stupid, either by paying a lot, or ignoring the bad. Fuck, PoE looks like freakin' Mother Theresa in comparison.

That was a vent. I'm done. You can laugh it off if you want.

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Phrazz wrote:

The more I read/hear/see about D:I's predatory system, how much you CAN spend - and how much you HAVE to spend to unlock everything, send shivers down my spine. Hell, some purchases even gets indirectly cancelled if you don't log in every day? PLEASE debunk this for me, because if it's true, God damn.

Nope, no debunk. It's true. That's the one that jolts you in specific?

For me that pay box after killing a boss frustrates me. After watching subtractem's vid on how Vegas project leads are hired by gaming companies to min-max psychology towards the gambling I figured you know, defeating a boss is a little peak of dopamine - that's when they get you? So you feel a little bad about bad loot, and you can compensate that bad feeling by buying a loot box.

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I've been looking around for positive reviews as Foreverhappychan got me a bit excited that the game itself could be good. I couldn't find that much. It's not just the PoE forum, it's more like a big portion of the gaming world completely shits on this game because of it's P2W. I think it makes it harder for people enjoying it to bring their opinion out as there will be inevitable backlash.

But the few spots where I found appreciating players I learned that even the players enjoying the game have issues that all purchases are server and/or character bound.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it's just way too much

DI, u can play game totally free and have fun as long u ingore leaderboards.

PoE, u need buy stash tabs 60-200€ to have some what decent inventory managment, download loot filter, check diffrend wepsites to see info how and what certain event reward, only meta builds are playable in end game so u never can make own build, currently only 3 meta build league (melee?:/)

as long u have fun ingore every think else.

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Junkkis wrote:

DI, u can play game totally free and have fun as long u ingore leaderboards.

PoE, u need buy stash tabs 60-200€ to have some what decent inventory managment, download loot filter, check diffrend wepsites to see info how and what certain event reward, only meta builds are playable in end game so u never can make own build, currently only 3 meta build league (melee?:/)

as long u have fun ingore every think else.

It's ironic that you bring up inventory space and stash tabs as a negative for POE, yet don't mention that DI also has horrible inventory space, but allows you to buy *temporary* (30 days) expanded inventory space as part of their version of a battle pass (Boon of Plenty) for the approximately the cost of 2 *permanent* POE premium stash tabs.

It's actually hard to express how utterly insidious the hyper-monetization of DI is, and comparing it to POE monetization only highlights how lightly GGG has been treading here.