The Plague that is GGG's "Trade" system. & the Predatory dance feeding its lowkey P2W mechanism.
" I mentioned earlier all the tools which you can (right now) use to INSTANTLY price your entire stash tab (and then make modifications to some items whose price you already have in mind). So the "hassle of pricing" is only occurring right now when people are for some reason, not using these (already available) tools. And As long as GGG doesn't implement an ingame Marketplace, you will always have to tab out, and tab in, and tab out, for every attempt you make at whispering someone for an item. Because as long as it exists outside the game itself, you have to tab out. Multiple times. For the same item. And the AH will definitely not be "hassle free"- people here are mostly exaggerating how "hassle free" AH will make everything, and how "complex and sophisticated" the pricing and listing is right now. The same hassle of pricing your items smartly exists in any economy or system. It's not like AH will auto-perfect-price your items for you or something. You would still have to put the prices yourself and change them yourself. And you may already know, noob players put most of their items on sale, and with usually inaccurate prices, because they need to make any currency they can. And experienced players put a smaller amount of items with more value and more accurate prices. This is not going to change no matter what is done. Because both their item acquiring methods are different and in different tiers for the most part. The Tax is a "superficial immersion" mechanic. Obviously nobody (except some imaginary NPC) is getting paid the tax. And 10% is too much. I was saying more on the low end. Like 1% to 5%. Just for 'simulating' irl tax on sales etc, which promotes thinking a bit more smartly about pricing. And conversion can be based on present currency prices. It's a totally non-vital mechanic which is mostly there for "the feels". Last edited by allionus on Mar 5, 2020, 4:16:27 AM
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There isnt a single person playing this game what wouldnt want quick, easy safe trading all done in game if it didnt come with consequenses, the difference between pro and anti AH is recognizing these issues
Trade in this game is set up to be time consuming and interupting to prevent you from using it all the time for everything instead of using other ways to prevent inflation (again lower droprates or BoE as other games have) this allows a completely free market where you can buy, use and resell as much as you want again, it theretically makes sense and it has been tried practically before and every other AH you can come up with have some sort or limiters in place because they all recognize the very same issues you either want the free market with a working economy or you want an AH with much lower droprates or items being limited in some other way like Bind on Equip there will still be people who prefers an AH but these are your choices you cant have the cake and eat it too | |
" Well on paper what you say seems to make sense. But when I think about the hundreds/thousands of people who are online only to trade, and spend all their time in hideout, counter this whole argument you put on. 5 out of 10 people i trade with on average, are just spending all their time on trading. You think current system is there to "slow the trade so people don't use it to get all items" - uhhh... People literally can buy Every.single.item for their new build in 1 hour or less of searching. and Most people do that. Instead of finding every item themselves. You are saying BoE would be negative. But you don't look at the fact that if you did put BoE (and im not saying that I personally support it) into the game, then the problem you said about "players buying everything on trade" would just become non-existent. If something is BoE, then you HAVE TO FARM IT. No other way. Unlike right now, where you can literally just throw a bunch of exes at trade and get every item you want. Every currency. Every thing. FUNNY STORY - BoE Can even help make "r.m.t" ((I DO NOT SUPPORT RMT, I AM JUST TALKING ON THE TOPIC BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEM IT CAUSES!!! WARNING!!! I DO NOT SUPPORT RMT!!! I HATE RMT!!!)) DEAD LOL!! How people gonna rmt when the item is BoE?? HAHAHA!!! rmter's will lose their value, and those losers who buy currency to get max gear, will have to learn the hard way what work it takes to gear up. Also, Drop rates for items are adjusted ALL THE TIME already. When it happens, if drop rate is reduced, then the item value goes up. If it is increased, then item value goes down. Nothing new about it. Also, drop rates don't make a difference. People still list items today which cost 1Aug orb or less. But STILL SELL it on trade, instead of vendoring it. I suggest you look at more angles on this story than those which you personally like. Or it just weakens the argument you are making because you miss out on facts while focusing on what you prefer. | |
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And frankly, I don't understand the people defending it - when they have a fear like "AH will swarm the market with items, and people will just buy/sell a lot more".
That is absurd logic. here's why- Just like right now, there's people who will only sell what they think has value, and other people who sell almost everything in their stash. And buyers who only buy the things they need/want or can afford for later, or buyers who buy all kinds of random items impulsively. They won't be buying or selling MORE ITEMS. They will just be able to WASTE LESS TIME DOING IT. Last edited by allionus on Mar 5, 2020, 4:35:50 AM
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Im not giving you a personal perspective anywhere, im telling you why and how. ive given examples and explanations.
there might be addons that let you put your whole stash for sale. dont know how it works. probably most dont but if everyone was using that and it worked well i could very well see that becoming an issue. but they arent just by existing. i dont think theyre commonly used. And you still have the issue of having a stash full of items for sale (prob 1-2 chaos stuff if youre letting a script do it) and people msging you while mapping its been tried, it failed. and it failed exactly as would be expected. that game never reached its potential and they did not try to adjust numbers for a reason despite that the work had already been done. they just gave up. you cant have an economy with an unresticted AH with current droprates. and what theyd have to do to get around that would ruin the game not only for me but for alot of players PoE got to where it is with the current system, they are definetly doing something right | |
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This last league, maybe because i skipped like 2 or 3, showed me alot of the scum.
Bots auto trading. People buying my items to flip (90% of the sales were necros buying a sword/axe they can't use, usually challenges in the 35+ range). People price fixing with items they ain't going to sell or answer anyway. A level 1, challenges 1, character having 50+ chaos is weird and probably RMT or flipping related. Getting spammed for request to buy if you mistakenly list something lower (either by take another second to set the price or not knowing), and having people just ignore your buy request for hours or days. Fun. edit - ow and i'm salty AF about how i always sell decent items for very low, less than 4 chaos. But than when i'm looking for the same things people are asking tenths of chaos. I Know it's just me saying i rather have the money quick rather than the item sit in my stash for half a league for another 5 chaos, but it's annoying as hell. There's a reason we don't use the BARTER system IRL nowdays. Not getting into a knife fight over bread and milk daily is the way to go. Last edited by Blakey85 on Mar 5, 2020, 4:54:45 AM
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Some people would prefer an AH with BoE. but if youre anti-AH its probably because you enjoy that there is an actuall economy in PoE
RMT is a sideeffect that is really hard to get away from when items can be trade freely, ive never bought an item for real money and never will. but i dont really care if someone else does in a game like PoE. it will just never affect me items that are 1 alch now really arent going to be much affected, neither is one of a kind niche items. if its valuable and there is only 1 or 2 in the game, there wont be anymore of them with an AH its anything from a few chaos to a few exalts that will devalue. they are common enough that we find them, but either dont know its actual value or we do and we cant be bothered even if you need to put a B/O (is it even an auction house then?...) youre still going to post more stuff because you wont get spammed with msges while mapping and getting interupted | |
" It's somewhat annoying when people label my criticism of the Game's trade system as a "rAnT". I know, it's an attempt at a low blow. A gentle poo fling (just a small dookie). Again, you seem to be more irritated by GGG making you tab in and out of the game dozens of times in a sesh of trading than I am. I personally don't care. Like I said in the start, the issue is GGG calculatedly keeping a stupidly handicapped trade system (forcing players to rely on several 3rd party tools, whose only job is to COMPENSATE for all of GGG's own implementation shortcomings, BUT in a "non-Sale-hurty" way, all for some more financial gain. The problem is them using cliche mobile gaming pinch points to the point of absurdity, just to maximize their Stash Sales (NOT ALL MTX). And of course, Selling "mIcRoTrAnSaCtiOnS" that allow you an advantage in the game (yes, economy is also a -large- part of the game) which directly allows you an edge over the players who don't spend the same amount of money as you in those purchases. In being provided access to INGAME FEATURES, which help you move items into the economy faster than those who didn't pay for the same advantage. And in turn Make more currency faster, AND ultimately that leads to more power to buy items. They sell veiled, indirect P2W ADVANTAGE. That was the MAIN POINT. jesois chroist!!!! The proposal of a better ingame system was just a CORRECTION to this uncouth business practice. People keep trying to falsely make fearmongering assumptions on how "apocalyptic" a new trade mechanic will be (which i've refuted in other responses) to the "game's purity". While they already live in an ingame economy which looks like it never got enough food as a child, and then got nuked twice in the same week. But somehow survived and mutated into what we know as PoE's Trade system. Where thousands of flippers, snipers, and fixers became parasites at its nape, controlling vast areas of the economy lol. | |
" GGG have a certain vision for the game and how easy it should be to acquire items. While they at the same at the same, wants to keep the "gap" between players trading and players not trading as small as they can. They've said so. The main limitation with today's system, is the fact that by requiring players to be online to trade, they do in practice cut off 2/3 of the market, if we take for granted that people follow the "modern" cycle of 8/8/8 (work, spare time, sleep). The "gap" between non-trading players and trading players will always be huge - there's nothing GGG can do about that. But they CAN keep it somewhat in check by having limitations on trade, be that online only, BoE, BoPU, non-automatic and so on. You're right; the game and its drop rates are being adjusted all the time, based on how easy it is to acquire certain items, though trade and through drops. The easier trade is to get into and the easier/more efficient trade is, it will be easier to acquire certain gear/frags/currency/whatever. This WILL have a direct impact on drop rates - and GGG's vision on limiting the "gap" mentioned above. I will not play a game where I feel FORCED to trade. I don't feel FORCED to trade today. I DO trade, but not a lot. I buy what I NEED, and sell some of the items I don't need. Trading will never feel rewarding to me. It's a tool. The moment I feel I'm required to trade, I'm out. And in my seven years of playing, I've never felt forced. I fear an automated AH will change that. Not right away, of course - but in the future, when the AH is in the back of the head of all GGG employees making new additions/adjustments to the game. Now, are there other forms of limitations that could work? Yes, of course. But ALL of them would piss of different types of players. I don't think players being OK with buying every item will ever understand this. I really don't expect them to. But as long as I feel GGG understand, I'm all good. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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" LOL yeah dude i totally forgot about those autobots!!! And i clap for all the people defending the trade system and not thinking about the bot swamp this system has fed!!!! Thanks for reminding about those!! One example of mental Price manipulation in this League -> Before my 2 week vacation --->> 1 Ex = 14 divines. 1 divine = 12ish c After the 2 week vacation (was excited to be back) --->> 1ex = 6 divines. 1 divine = 24 chaos. WTF LMAO!!!! AND the worst thing about this price rise, is that this is UNNATURAL. This is purely due to Flippers and fixers and their filthy trade bots. |
