General Discussion - The Plague that is GGG's "Trade" system. & the Predatory dance feeding its lowkey P2W mechanism. - Forum

" SeCKSEgai wrote: OP reminds me of what was called the "bronze mentality" back when I was active on league of legends. Instead of introspection and improving one's self, OP places the blame elsewhere, in this case the economy. I managed to hit 36 selling a total of 3 items at 5c each. The rest of my currency was found just playing the game. I found 17 exalts total, and just spent 3 of them, the rest of my gear and a few key maps for varying amounts of chaos. You can blame the system all you want, but in the end its just an excuse to avoid accepting the faults within yourself. I had no intention of even playing metamorphosis and didn't even touch it till the last 4 weeks or so. Hell I didn't even like the league and the necro I played for the first time was fun at first but I'll probably never play one again. But I didn't let that stop me from hitting 36 one more time. And don't forget all the 40/40 and level 100 chars that still manage to thrive despite all your complaints. Maybe you watch streamers and expect to get their experience, but that's like watching the NBA and thinking you can play at that level. Forget about everyone else and just strive to improve at your own pace and you'll get much farther than just placing the blame on something or someone else. O look, another passive aggressive bro post whose only frame of reference is their own perspective into the game, and sprinkled with latent sycophancy. Nice. "introspection and improving oneself". Nice. "In the end its just an excuse to avoid accepting the faults within yourself." Nice. Totally sick burn bro. "And don't forget all the 40/40 and level 100 chars that still manage to thrive despite all your complaints." Nice. A gnarly non equivalency fallacy bro. Totally got me with that one. I had never considered how LEVELS and Content CLEARING based achievements are directly linked to how trade works and how the stash system is laid out. LMAO Totally burnt me to a crisp with those sick facts!!!! "Maybe you watch streamers and expect to get their experience, but that's like watching the NBA and thinking you can play at that level" - Wow, NBA, someone sure thinks highly of "streamers" (I respect them, but to be a succ of the streamers is not for me as much as it is for you). There's better players who never stream. I made over 300 ex while half assedly playing meta and focusing on crafting. But Unlike you, I didn't use my "personal experience" as a basis for an argument. And that is where you failed. This is not real life. It's a closed system which Devs are the gods of. And everything in it, they are fully accountable for. You lowkey sucking up to them does nothing to absolve them of this responsibility. And sadly, as is so obvious, mundane greed even manages to ruin worlds where humans have full control, and could create a perfect system. And people like you praise their concealed greed with baseless defenses. Which mostly seem to be done just to make your own brain feel good and "heroic".	Posted by allionus#2044 on Mar 17, 2020, 12:34:55 PM Quote this Post
" Nelhyss wrote: I'll never understand why a minority of people want an Auction House so badly and I'm glad GGG keeps ignoring them. The problem with "minorities and majorities" is they're not a good basis for which one's factually correct. It can be either one, and "popular opinion" isn't worth a dime outside the subjective preferences of those who're "for a way of doing things". You suffer no less by having to spend longer doing the same thing in more tedious ways than you would have otherwise, just because you're happy with it. Your time is still wasted jumping through GGG's hoops. But people's brains don't necessarily work to improve their existential conditions within a game, or without. Sometimes becoming friends with the shittier, less efficient parts of your lives is a much easier thing to do, than finding that same befriended ideology/system/habit to be a problem, and having to reform your opinions on it. Basically, Just because you're happy with a shit system, that doesn't do anything to remove you from the shit system. You're still swimming deep withing it, you still suffer the lack of a better system, waste of time, and you still suffer jumping the same unnecessary hoops as everyone else in it. While only one profits from it all. Being happy about it, changes nothing, other than your perception. AKA self deception. Which I might also be inclined to do, if I didn't know how to detach myself from my subjective reactions. tl;dr - This system is basically something you're "religious" about. And no matter how much existential degradation liking it causes in your game/experience, you overlook it all for the thing you have tunnel vision for. You don't need to be aware of certain types suffering to undergo it, you can't opt out just by "choosing to like it" lmao. Last edited by allionus#2044 on Mar 17, 2020, 12:50:06 PM	Posted by allionus#2044 on Mar 17, 2020, 12:47:10 PM Quote this Post
" ajo wrote: " Destructodave wrote: Yep, the item bloat predatory practice is getting old. I remember a time when I bought into the stash page hype. "Premium tabs? Hell yea thanks GGG! Currency tab! Hell yea thanks GGG!" But at this point I see every league coming and I'm like, oh new league? Lemme see....Oh 23 new currencies thats gonna need its own special stash tab for 20 bucks? F you GGG. I mean seriously. Do they really not make enough money on MTX nowadays? That they have to continually item bloat the game for the sole purpose of selling stash tabs? Because if thats not the case, they would be finding ways to let you add said new stuff to existing tabs, instead of selling entire new tabs. They are incredibly predatory, like any p2w game. Even worse in some cases. I mean you have to spend money on premium tabs to even remotely enjoy trading. Which, for the longest time, is basically linked to a 3rd party site with RMT ads plastered all over it. Yeah, and when you mention that, people will argue that poe is such a small game that can't keep their free-to-play model as pure as the bigger and better examples. I don't think that's true because in the past GGG have been able to thrive on the support and good will of a much smaller community alone. People have been happy to donate in the past without actually needing anything in return, and that's why cosmetics have so stupid prices compared to other games. It's was a sink for GGGold due to inflation caused from massive supporting. Maybe people started voting with their wallets, or maybe that will of supporting was somewhat lost when the chineese overlords bought GGG. Who knows. Spoiler Or maybe they just got greedy. Yeah, sadly it seems to be this way. It appears to be the case that their main aim behind Item bloating and other mechanisms to make stash overflow, in combination with a trash, lazy trade system, is to make people who otherwise wouldn't spend money on vanity cosmetics, drop a fairly substantial sum of money for a F2P but P2W game. And of course, there'll be many people here who pretend to "just genuinely like the current system", while having ulterior motives such as being price fixers, snipers, gougers, scammers, etc, and just trying to make sure their easily exploited system stays unchanged.	Posted by allionus#2044 on Mar 17, 2020, 12:58:44 PM Quote this Post
" warex2500 wrote: I've enough experience with AH through MMOs and the result is pretty much the same as with the current system. In the current system you're alt tabing to get an answer and in the other one you're sitting there clicking away in the hopes that whatever you wanted wasn't already bought by someone else. Nothing has changed. You'll be back making another rant about changing to something else. It's not a rant. That's a bad scarecrow. And your past experience with other ingame marketplaces must be falsely memorized because they certainly did not work like this system does.	Posted by allionus#2044 on Mar 17, 2020, 1:03:16 PM Quote this Post
" iuiulitza wrote: I read your essay . My game experience is nothing like you describe. I am from Europe and Russian players are the fastest to respond when i trade with them. I like the trade system . It allows me to visit other people's hideouts and sometimes see cool stuff in there. You say GGG want to force us to buy stash tabs ? I,m ok with that as long as , they not force me to pay to login in the game . I see complains but i don't solutions. What should they do to make the amount of money they make , without using the methods they are using now ? Well you have the right like any other person to have a personal opinion on the game's system and how it works. But my case is not against people's preferences. But against the actual reality of how this system works. Simple P2W mechanisms. And I'm not saying "GGG want to force us to buy stash tabs ?", i am making a statement that is reality. It has nothing to do with my opinions. Yes Russians do generally reply at an acceptable rate, but again, there are also Russians who never reply, and just sit there price fixing and sniping items. The point is to fix the problems, and not bask in some of the benefits that exist, and use those to overlook every negative aspect of it all. Sure, they don't charge you to log into the game. That would be P2P. And I never called them p2p to begin with. Also, if they did try to pull that move, they'd get buried instantly. Which is why they only prod people for their money in a very sinister, calculated way.	Posted by allionus#2044 on Mar 17, 2020, 1:10:30 PM Quote this Post
" allionus wrote: " Nelhyss wrote: I'll never understand why a minority of people want an Auction House so badly and I'm glad GGG keeps ignoring them. The problem with "minorities and majorities" is they're not a good basis for which one's factually correct. It can be either one, and "popular opinion" isn't worth a dime outside the subjective preferences of those who're "for a way of doing things". You suffer no less by having to spend longer doing the same thing in more tedious ways than you would have otherwise, just because you're happy with it. Your time is still wasted jumping through GGG's hoops. But people's brains don't necessarily work to improve their existential conditions within a game, or without. Sometimes becoming friends with the shittier, less efficient parts of your lives is a much easier thing to do, than finding that same befriended ideology/system/habit to be a problem, and having to reform your opinions on it. Basically, Just because you're happy with a shit system, that doesn't do anything to remove you from the shit system. You're still swimming deep withing it, you still suffer the lack of a better system, waste of time, and you still suffer jumping the same unnecessary hoops as everyone else in it. While only one profits from it all. Being happy about it, changes nothing, other than your perception. AKA self deception. Which I might also be inclined to do, if I didn't know how to detach myself from my subjective reactions. tl;dr - This system is basically something you're "religious" about. And no matter how much existential degradation liking it causes in your game/experience, you overlook it all for the thing you have tunnel vision for. You don't need to be aware of certain types suffering to undergo it, you can't opt out just by "choosing to like it" lmao. That's a lot of words to only say a few things, next time try to be more concise instead of making me read a diarrhea and maybe I'll consider what you have to say. 7/10 can do better.	Posted by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020, 1:27:28 PM
When I see these folks write how evil or sinister or predatory a game company is, two thoughts come to mind - that these people have insane entitlement issues and that if they actually felt things were that bad they wouldn't even waste time on a forum talking about it. Yep, totally over league play.	Posted by SeCKSEgai#6175 on Mar 17, 2020, 5:38:23 PM Quote this Post
creator send me your PayPal ill hook you poor human up with 100 Points 4000 Hours and complains about hideout mtx and premium stashes lmao. Get some mule characters if you dont like it you greedy piece, also trade Chat is not premium stashtab restricted, you can trade there if you are 2 greedy to support a game with 20 bucks where u spend 4000 Hours. dont even answer to me, how can u blame a Company for making Money, that is literally the whole Point of Opening a Business, holy shit.	Posted by Kane1992#4488 on Mar 17, 2020, 9:33:41 PM Quote this Post
I agree the trading system is cancer and Tencent, oups I mean GGG knows this, but they are too greedy and prideful to realize it. You know a game is pretty shit when players need to run 4 different 3rd party programs to play the game with a little bit of QOL. And even with all those programs the trading is just really, really bad. It has been like that since the dawn of time. And nothing changed since then (mainly because of GGG and the sub iq fanbois - who we can clearly see all over in this thread). Instead of that we got powercreep, new purchasable MTX, fog, new purchasable MTX, one shot off screening monsters, new purchasable MTX, speed meta intestifies, new purchasable MTX,crappy bossfights, new purchasable MTX, and do you have no lootfilters?	Posted by ThIsIsToXiN#7628 on Mar 17, 2020, 9:58:33 PM Quote this Post
it's not pay to win. YOU feel that it is because YOU have been playing with the wrong mindset and that is forcing you into things that you claim you don't want to do (pay for things or feel you miss out) But then there is solo self found, no trading and people play ALL the way through the game, there is even private league mods that disable stashes and people play ALL the way through the game...so what exactly is pay to win if anyone can do without. (also the only problem with the trade system are the idiots misusing it) Ancestral Bond. It's a thing that does stuff. -Vipermagi He who controls the pants controls the galaxy. - Rick & Morty S3E1	Posted by lagwin1980#2224 on Mar 17, 2020, 11:25:27 PM Quote this Post