Change % damage from traps to flat damage in lab already.

"

Razis wrote:

The thing is, the punishment in hc for this arcade element is too harsh. It's fine to die in a map because you were given a set of rules to follow and test your built character in battle, if you die, you failed within that set of rules.

I have a problem with the fact that the character can die outside of the given set of rules. That's the most basic way I can put it myself. The fact that it's still within the same game means nothing, beacuse you pretty much boot up a different set of rules for the trap-lab run.

Inconsistent.

You can avoid the fucking traps, blink arrow, WB, leap slam, lightning warp, phase run.

Look at the timings, learn the pattern.

You say the lab is "too different" because of the traps, but even if the traps hit they would still be traps, your logic and your view is extremely flawed because you can't admit that you should be avoiding the traps.

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Razis wrote:

The thing is, the punishment in hc for this arcade element is too harsh. It's fine to die in a map because you were given a set of rules to follow and test your built character in battle, if you die, you failed within that set of rules.

I have a problem with the fact that the character can die outside of the given set of rules. That's the most basic way I can put it myself. The fact that it's still within the same game means nothing, beacuse you pretty much boot up a different set of rules for the trap-lab run.

Inconsistent.

You can avoid the fucking traps, blink arrow, WB, leap slam, lightning warp, phase run.

Look at the timings, learn the pattern.

You say the lab is "too different" because of the traps, but even if the traps hit they would still be traps, your logic and your view is extremely flawed because you can't admit that you should be avoiding the traps.

we've went over this. I already told you, you're great sc player that goes hc occasionaly and ragequits. Good for you. Guess what - In 1500 hours of playing hc I have also discovered movement skills! THAT'S HOW AWESOME I AM. I am also aware that traps actually move in patters! I'm not even the type of guy to run through the lab like a crazy person, seriously.

There is not always a way to get away. Trust me. Yes, most traps are avoidable. But sometimes you will end up in a situation where you will get recked and there is nothing you can do about it, with multiple sets of different traps on top of each other with no place to run and no safe spot.

That being said, that's not the point at all. If there is even 1% chance that you will end up in a situation where you can end up in a place where you just need to take the damage, we should consider it as absolute for hc. Because that's russian roulette for hc, and the rest of the game is not a russian roulette. The damage that you would recieve always follow a set of rules and there are ways you can mitigate within the system, or just use your superior ehp. But not the traps. Traps dont care.

You're consistently missing the point and turning this into a **** measuring contest. We get it, you say you can manage traps 100% flawlessly. Understood. Please stop.

"

Razis wrote:

Here you go. That's exactly what I think is the problem here. If you're willing to admit that changing ground effects to % would be bad for the game because of inconsistency, you can see the point we're making for traps here I'm sure.

It would be the exact same thing.

No

In absolutely no way it is the same thing, please stop with the bad faith.
You can defend against elemental damage, that burning ground is, in wraeclast "magic" has its own protection, which is elemental resistances of course.

Against a saw blade spinning at full speed ? No protection will save you if you decide to hug it, seems pretty fair, and pretty consistent.

"

Siochan wrote:

"

mark1030 wrote:

There is no such thing as a maze that doesn't involve getting lost and backtracking. That's the whole point and challenge of a maze. Portaling back to the starting point is backtracking whether you physically retrace each and every step or just skip all the intermediate steps. You still end up back where you started.

So what are your other ideas besides a non-backtracking maze? You said there are plenty of them.

Crossing over path or point is not the same as "retracing a path". What I said is correct per the definition of backtracking, though it may differ than your personal understanding of the word.

No, if you port back over, you will go through the same path again anyway ( through the portal once, and then before finding another way ).

Plus there would be no point, no interesting part into such a system, it would be completely brainless.
If you want brainless gameplay, please look for another game, thank you.

"

Razis wrote:

"

Entropic_Fire wrote:

"

Pyrokar wrote:

The bitterness of sc players who adress hc ones is always a thing to be amazed off.

Op. I am with you. Hardcore platformer gameplay makes no sense at all for a game like PoE.

I play both, can I say lab traps are fine? They give me some of my most exciting moments on hardcore, that's a good thing.

agree on the thrills. Going for the lab in hc is a big moment, and that's a good thing for sure. What we have a problem with here is that % trap damage is arbitrary. It might as well be a completely different game starting in windowed mode and if you win, you live - because the mechanics behind traps have no place in the rest of the PoE.

What you get is you spent days building the char, THEN you start playing the game and really start crafting it - and now and then you get to play arcade game that decides the fate of your character that you've been creating within a certain set of rules.

If PoE was all arcade, skill based game like that, it would be fine. I wouldn't be playing it for sure because all the depth would be thrown out the window, but at least it would be consistent.

This is a little bit ironic imo.
If you give people the possibility to over gear the traps, they will do it.
You will not have thrills anymore, nothing, it will have been trivialized.
So the rules have sllightly changed in the lab, yeah, probably because power creep allowed people to trivialize most of the content.

"

Razis wrote:

But sometimes you will end up in a situation where you will get recked and there is nothing you can do about it, with multiple sets of different traps on top of each other with no place to run and no safe spot.

I have no yet attempted ubr lab yet ( soon, I don't need the points but I'll give it a try, I'm curious ), and I have yet to see such a situation, seriously.
I know the feeling of the panic coming because of "shit where do I go ???", but I believe that there is always a "safe" path. There might be situation were you make mistakes and end up in a 0 completely safe escape locatiion, that I believe, but flasks and movement skills are here for those situations.

"

Razis wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Razis wrote:

The thing is, the punishment in hc for this arcade element is too harsh. It's fine to die in a map because you were given a set of rules to follow and test your built character in battle, if you die, you failed within that set of rules.

I have a problem with the fact that the character can die outside of the given set of rules. That's the most basic way I can put it myself. The fact that it's still within the same game means nothing, beacuse you pretty much boot up a different set of rules for the trap-lab run.

Inconsistent.

You can avoid the fucking traps, blink arrow, WB, leap slam, lightning warp, phase run.

Look at the timings, learn the pattern.

You say the lab is "too different" because of the traps, but even if the traps hit they would still be traps, your logic and your view is extremely flawed because you can't admit that you should be avoiding the traps.

we've went over this. I already told you, you're great sc player that goes hc occasionaly and ragequits. Good for you. Guess what - In 1500 hours of playing hc I have also discovered movement skills! THAT'S HOW AWESOME I AM. I am also aware that traps actually move in patters! I'm not even the type of guy to run through the lab like a crazy person, seriously.

There is not always a way to get away. Trust me. Yes, most traps are avoidable. But sometimes you will end up in a situation where you will get recked and there is nothing you can do about it, with multiple sets of different traps on top of each other with no place to run and no safe spot.

That being said, that's not the point at all. If there is even 1% chance that you will end up in a situation where you can end up in a place where you just need to take the damage, we should consider it as absolute for hc. Because that's russian roulette for hc, and the rest of the game is not a russian roulette. The damage that you would recieve always follow a set of rules and there are ways you can mitigate within the system, or just use your superior ehp. But not the traps. Traps dont care.

You're consistently missing the point and turning this into a **** measuring contest. We get it, you say you can manage traps 100% flawlessly. Understood. Please stop.

Video or picture proof there is no safe spot because I don't believe you, so either provide proof or stop with the outrageous claims.


You don't ever "need" to take excessive damage, that is just a failure on your part as a player. Again if you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

"

goetzjam wrote:

Video or picture proof there is no safe spot because I don't believe you, so either provide proof or stop with the outrageous claims.


You don't ever "need" to take excessive damage, that is just a failure on your part as a player. Again if you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

no man. sorry, I don't have a proof.

I have something better though.

You ask yourself if you can avoid ALL damage from traps every single time. As in, if you have ever been hit by one, lately. You don't have to say anything more (please don't), and just answer yourself that.

Your argument is bullshit unless you can truly avoid them 100%, never get damaged.

If that's the case, congratulations you are actually as superior as you obviously think you are. If not, then traps are in fact an issue for hc as stated in the post above.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Razis wrote:

Here you go. That's exactly what I think is the problem here. If you're willing to admit that changing ground effects to % would be bad for the game because of inconsistency, you can see the point we're making for traps here I'm sure.

It would be the exact same thing.

No

In absolutely no way it is the same thing, please stop with the bad faith.
You can defend against elemental damage, that burning ground is, in wraeclast "magic" has its own protection, which is elemental resistances of course.

Against a saw blade spinning at full speed ? No protection will save you if you decide to hug it, seems pretty fair, and pretty consistent.

Are you for real? People can tank through slam for a guy named Malachai the Nightmare. What? No. You can't be for real.

/edit: I've just read it again. Seriously, think about what actually does go down in the game for a second. WTF.

"

Razis wrote:

There is not always a way to get away. Trust me. Yes, most traps are avoidable. But sometimes you will end up in a situation where you will get recked and there is nothing you can do about it, with multiple sets of different traps on top of each other with no place to run and no safe spot..

What do you do when this happens in the rest of the game? I can't imagine you never get overwhelmed anywhere else. A tight room with a strongbox or beyonders popping up all around you maybe.

"

mark1030 wrote:

"

Razis wrote:

There is not always a way to get away. Trust me. Yes, most traps are avoidable. But sometimes you will end up in a situation where you will get recked and there is nothing you can do about it, with multiple sets of different traps on top of each other with no place to run and no safe spot..

What do you do when this happens in the rest of the game? I can't imagine you never get overwhelmed anywhere else. A tight room with a strongbox or beyonders popping up all around you maybe.

absolutely, pure bad positioning then - why is that bad positioning while traps are just arcade random bs you might ask, that's hypocritical - nope. Because the beyonders or anything else that might overwhelm you is consistant with the game mechanics. They will deal damage within the mechanics, and you will have a way to deal with the mechanics. If you can't, that's on you. It respects the rules that were agreed upon.

Traps don't care because they follow a separate set of rules. It's a different game if you think about it, embeded within the consistent system of PoE.

"

Razis wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

Video or picture proof there is no safe spot because I don't believe you, so either provide proof or stop with the outrageous claims.


You don't ever "need" to take excessive damage, that is just a failure on your part as a player. Again if you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

no man. sorry, I don't have a proof.

I have something better though.

You ask yourself if you can avoid ALL damage from traps every single time. As in, if you have ever been hit by one, lately. You don't have to say anything more (please don't), and just answer yourself that.

Your argument is bullshit unless you can truly avoid them 100%, never get damaged.

If that's the case, congratulations you are actually as superior as you obviously think you are. If not, then traps are in fact an issue for hc as stated in the post above.

I don't have proof, well then you don't have a fucking leg to stand on do you.


Can I avoid damage and do I avoid damage are 2 different things. I know what my character can take in damage, I know what traps will kill my character if I run with them.


Traps can't be a HC or a SC issue, if traps were too difficult in SC then people wouldn't be able to do the lab there either because they would take damage and die from traps.


Don't run with the traps, use more then right click and the lab traps are pretty easy to "beat"

"

Razis wrote:

Are you for real? People can tank through slam for a guy named Malachai the Nightmare. What? No. You can't be for real.

/edit: I've just read it again. Seriously, think about what actually does go down in the game for a second. WTF.

People waaaaaayyy overleveld and overgear can survive ( and do not go away indemn from it ) a hit given from one being, that is not in the highest level content at all ( mostly because of ... power creep, again ).
A huge majority of the people get one shot, as intended if they get hit.

In lab, you are talking about fucking saw blades, things that deal more damage but in return they are not intelligent, those are just machines that follow a simple pattern, those are freaking saw blades at full speed !!!
Besides saw blades give you time to react, they do not one shot you, ever.