Change % damage from traps to flat damage in lab already.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Razis wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

Video or picture proof there is no safe spot because I don't believe you, so either provide proof or stop with the outrageous claims.


You don't ever "need" to take excessive damage, that is just a failure on your part as a player. Again if you fail to plan, you are planning to fail.

no man. sorry, I don't have a proof.

I have something better though.

You ask yourself if you can avoid ALL damage from traps every single time. As in, if you have ever been hit by one, lately. You don't have to say anything more (please don't), and just answer yourself that.

Your argument is bullshit unless you can truly avoid them 100%, never get damaged.

If that's the case, congratulations you are actually as superior as you obviously think you are. If not, then traps are in fact an issue for hc as stated in the post above.

I don't have proof, well then you don't have a fucking leg to stand on do you.


Can I avoid damage and do I avoid damage are 2 different things. I know what my character can take in damage, I know what traps will kill my character if I run with them.


Traps can't be a HC or a SC issue, if traps were too difficult in SC then people wouldn't be able to do the lab there either because they would take damage and die from traps.


Don't run with the traps, use more then right click and the lab traps are pretty easy to "beat"

So you do admit that you can't avoid the traps 100%. (since, you know. no proof.) Then traps are not in fact all avoidable and you do actually get hit by them.

I'm starting to feel like you've never actually done lab in hc. Because it's not the same thing in hc and sc, obviously. As we've already established: traps are not all avoidable. There is a chance that they might kill you. If you play that arcade inconsistent-with-the-rest-of-the game roulette (which you have to) you will have a certain chance to die. Now, HERE is how SC and HC are different:

If you play sc, you can take that % chance of flat % damage killing you, and all you'd loose is a couple minutes. Restart the lab, go again.
If you go hc though, you loose your char. To what? To inconsitent arbitrary out of place game mechanic.

That's why hc people are quitting.

Now check it out - you just admitted yourself, it's not 100% avoidable. It's a factor. So what's exactly your argument here now? Why am I even asking I don't even care, you're hopeless and have just dismantled your own selling point that you used to argue to hc folk how **** they are, even though nobody really cares.

I hope someone reads it and gets it, though.

I think that he just implied that all traps can be avoided ( 100%, not speaking about the map ones I think tho ), but that he does not avoid all of them.

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Razis wrote:

So you do admit that you can't avoid the traps 100%. (since, you know. no proof.) Then traps are not in fact all avoidable and you do actually get hit by them.

I'm starting to feel like you've never actually done lab in hc. Because it's not the same thing in hc and sc, obviously. As we've already established: traps are not all avoidable. There is a chance that they might kill you. If you play that arcade inconsistent-with-the-rest-of-the game roulette (which you have to) you will have a certain chance to die. Now, HERE is how SC and HC are different:

If you play sc, you can take that % chance of flat % damage killing you, and all you'd loose is a couple minutes. Restart the lab, go again.
If you go hc though, you loose your char. To what? To inconsitent arbitrary out of place game mechanic.

That's why hc people are quitting.

Now check it out - you just admitted yourself, it's not 100% avoidable. It's a factor. So what's exactly your argument here now? Why am I even asking I don't even care, you're hopeless and have just dismantled your own selling point that you used to argue to hc folk how **** they are, even though nobody really cares.

I hope someone reads it and gets it, though.

There is no way of showing you every single set of traps are avoidable, it would be (if it was the case at all) possible to show a video of a set of traps that aren't avoidable or you think aren't and people can see the timings of the traps.


I'm starting to feel like you cant check public record. My champion did the merc lab last league many times. The traps are IDENTICAL in the labs, if it wasn't possible in HC, but is possible in SC, then you need to ask yourself why that would be the case? Considering if SC players die in the lab from traps, they have to run it again and again until they get it right.


There is a chance bearers might kill you, there is a chance that a devo will come up and one shot you. The "risk" of death in the lab should actually be significantly less then those other situations because you can see the traps ahead of time and plan accordingly.

Making up some stupid ass argument that "hc is dying or whatever" because some % metric is a bit stupid. Some people alternate leagues, ZiggyD is one of them and I bet he has a following that literally follow him on leagues. Many other factors come into place with the situation in HC that are irrelevant to you fucking point that traps should do flat damage.


All HC players aren't shit, just ones that fail to recognize when they are too stupid to see the logic presented in front of them.

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Fruz wrote:

I think that he just implied that all traps can be avoided ( 100%, not speaking about the map ones I think tho ), but that he does not avoid all of them.

He doesn't get it, I dont think he will ever get it.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

I think that he just implied that all traps can be avoided ( 100%, not speaking about the map ones I think tho ), but that he does not avoid all of them.

He doesn't get it, I dont think he will ever get it.

If you admit that trap damage is ANY factor in the game (which you do by saying that you sometimes fail to avoid em) and take into consideration that hc pop is bad because of terrible mechanics that contribute to that trap damage, it's a huge issue. For hc, at least, which is what I clearly care about while you clearly don't.

But you "won't ever get it" for some obscure reason.

Seriously, consider that you might actually be influenced by something else here. You guys are obviously not idiots and it's all pretty easy to see, so there absolutely must be something else going on there.

I wouldn't go as far as call them not idiots.

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Pyrokar wrote:

I wouldn't go as far as call them not idiots.

nasty but you made me laugh a bit, props to you.

What's funny is my only criticism about the lab is that it forces hardcore play on softcore characters. I know people have disagreed with my statements on the matter. But i think it's funny that as a softcore player I don't like the lab because it's hardcore (death ends the run) and some hardcore people are arguing against it because it's too hardcore.

P.S. Don't take my criticism as being in the lab hater club. I'm fine living with it the way it is.

Thing is, we don't know if it has such a big influence as you think it does.
There are other factors, and a big one I think is the fact that the challenge and items / mechanics are exactly the same in both leagues now, this is much much bigger than the lab imho.

Traps do not spiky enough damage in term of damage so that you cannot alt f4 if you fail really bad - given that you do not have a very bad connection, so > 200 ping I would say - ( by a really bad situation I mean something like no pots, and bad enough so that move skill wont open a safe route to you anymore ), at least until uber lab.
Which is why, to me at least, SC or HC does not make a difference here.

It definitely might be a big psychological factor for some, but I definitely do not think that lab is the culprit for the population in HC.
Thing is, only GGG has other stats ( such as .... Talisman's population, for example, a comparison would speak more ).

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mark1030 wrote:

What's funny is my only criticism about the lab is that it forces hardcore play on softcore characters. I know people have disagreed with my statements on the matter. But i think it's funny that as a softcore player I don't like the lab because it's hardcore (death ends the run) and some hardcore people are arguing against it because it's too hardcore.

P.S. Don't take my criticism as being in the lab hater club. I'm fine living with it the way it is.

Yes, it's too hardcore even for hardcore. Sc finds too hardcore the aspect of not respawning in a checkpoint if you die and hardcore find too "hardcore" the fact that traps deal %dmg. It's a different aspect they find too hardcore. What's so funny about it?

Sc players are used to low defence builds and dying all the time so they don't see that aspect of the lab as hard, they do it all the time and only care about playing defensively at 90+ where the xp penalty really hurts. Hc players are used to high defence builds and not dying all the time and that aspect of the lab kills the game for them, might as well be playing sc. That's why most hc players left for sc.