Haven't really ever commented on lab, but I hate it.

"

johnce6 wrote:

So it's also gated in favor of the left side and bottom class trees? Already knew this tho...good to have someone admit it whose all for having the lab as the only way to ascend instead of providing other challenges to ascend as an alternative.

Only CI/low life chars (aka, minority) have real problems with traps. Everyone who can use insta-life pots, is ok. 3 life pots, 1 granite, 1 QS... and you can bump into traps all day.

I'm not against alternative ways of ascending, without traps, as long as it's not made too easy. I've already mentioned in other threads, that I'd be in favour of a Descent type "race": solo-only, bare-naked, craft gear as you go, no TP, restart on death... maybe even timed.

But I'm against giving Asc points on Malachai kill or other trivial stuff that you do anyway. It's >ascending<, it's supposed to be a trial...

"

morbo wrote:

"

johnce6 wrote:

So it's also gated in favor of the left side and bottom class trees? Already knew this tho...good to have someone admit it whose all for having the lab as the only way to ascend instead of providing other challenges to ascend as an alternative.

Only CI/low life chars (aka, minority) have real problems with traps. Everyone who can use insta-life pots, is ok. 3 life pots, 1 granite, 1 QS... and you can bump into traps all day.

I'm not against alternative ways of ascending, without traps, as long as it's not made too easy. I've already mentioned in other threads, that I'd be in favour of a Descent type "race": solo-only, bare-naked, craft gear as you go, no TP, restart on death... maybe even timed.

But I'm against giving Asc points on Malachai kill or other trivial stuff that you do anyway. It's >ascending<, it's supposed to be a trial...

Well killing mala may be the norm on standard non league where the existence of a multitude of legacy and to date top tier gear is available but doing that in HC is a straight no go for 95% or more of the playerbase. Even if they did change it to that I'd still never be able to ascend. They would have to rebalance him and piety and I would have to make a standard version of my characters to even see if it is remotely possible. At least you are open to options. I really don't see how for the very small minority against providing altrnatives that are a reasnable challenge would just completely ruin their gaming experience to the point they refuse to condone any alternatives to ascension.

"

morbo wrote:

I've already mentioned in other threads, that I'd be in favour of a Descent type "race": solo-only, bare-naked, craft gear as you go, no TP, restart on death... maybe even timed.

Now this sounds like something I could get on board with...except that if I die I assume I'd be out of HC and restarting a new character, and I don't think it should be a timed race.

"

Severance2hBlade wrote:

Ascending is a trial, we all agree. What does that have to do with..Traps?

currently everything :/ heh

Perhaps another idea would be to restrict traps to certain bonus areas of the lab only and on top of the difficult mala kills especially merciless and on force the player to fight his pet instead of accidentally by chance running into him. Also have somewhat challenging monster gorups on the way that can have all the previous leagues mods instead of the canon fodder there is now.

This is just an idea like the many already offered....

"

Rakelholz wrote:

below zero unless you have the perfect build for it and a hang for super mario.

No
Please stop spreading disinformation.
I am running a VP build at the moment ( half of it is in the top part of the tree, the very top ). I have 80% life and 20% ES in this build at the moment.
A friend of mine is hierophant, and thus from mana has almost 50% of his life as ES ... and did not seem to have troubles running the lab either.

I ran the merc lab couple of times with only 2 life pots yesterday, and I'm still scared of traps, and not particularyl good at it ( I intend to spend a bit of time in it during the next level, I'll probably get better ).
It needs practise.

I died once .... because I did a gear swap and got one shot on 66% fire res by the goddess' spell.

Trap damage is calculated on 60% of ES, I'm pretty positive that running the lab with ES is nothign impossible, there are enough places to wait 2 sec for the ES recovery, and if you are occultist, from cruel lab it will regen even during the next 4 seconds.

"

Turtledove wrote:

GGG really should have made the little inset map more useful in trap areas. So that you could look at it and know where the safe areas are and what the proper route to take through the maps would be. My view is that this labyrinth content was poorly designed, debugged, and with no polish. The almost useless little inset map, when applied to traps, is an example of the poor design and lack of polish.

You'd have less troubles if you where not expecting to get everything on a platter.
It's supposed to be a labyrinth, obviously the game won't tell you exactly where to go in the instances, there is a global map already ........


PS : evasion might actually be better against trap, some can be clocked, I would not be surprised if they could not be evaded ( darts if I'm not mistaking, so if you evade tem, you don't get the slow ).

PPS : I feel like many people don't understand that GGG probably don't want to offer asc points after something that can just be facetanked, overgeared and facerolled without any troubles. They don't want the ascending process to be a simple gear check ( and that's imho great ).

"

Fruz wrote:

You'd have less troubles if you where not expecting to get everything on a platter.
It's supposed to be a labyrinth, obviously the game won't tell you exactly where to go in the instances, there is a global map already ........


PS : evasion might actually be better against trap, some can be clocked, I would not be surprised if they could not be evaded ( darts if I'm not mistaking, so if you evade tem, you don't get the slow ).

PPS : I feel like many people don't understand that GGG probably don't want to offer asc points after something that can just be facetanked, overgeared and facerolled without any troubles. They don't want the ascending process to be a simple gear check ( and that's imho great ).

I really don't expect anything on a platter especially when it comes to the horrible labyrinth. There are definitely patterns in the traps. I'm never going to learn those patterns because I hate doing labyrinth. Not doing labyrinth for the points is stupid because the points are very powerful. I really don't care. I play this game for fun and the labyrinth is just not fun so I'll never learn those patterns because I won't play it enough. So for people like me and for HC people that do labyrinth as little as possible, GGG should improve the visibility or improve the inset map for traps. I really believe that the engineers would have liked to but ran out of time and pushed out a piece of horrible crap. The piece of horrible crap assertion is supported by the fact that quality of the ascendancy release was very poor. Most of the performance problems introduced by ascendancy have since been resolved. However, I was a software engineer for over 40 years and I know that when poor quality is released to customers, it means that the whole development cycle was probably squeezed too much. The engineers just didn't have the time and resources to do a good job.

"

Turtledove wrote:

I really don't expect anything on a platter especially when it comes to the horrible labyrinth. There are definitely patterns in the traps. I'm never going to learn those patterns because I hate doing labyrinth. Not doing labyrinth for the points is stupid because the points are very powerful. I really don't care. I play this game for fun and the labyrinth is just not fun so I'll never learn those patterns because I won't play it enough. So for people like me and for HC people that do labyrinth as little as possible, GGG should improve the visibility or improve the inset map for traps. I really believe that the engineers would have liked to but ran out of time and pushed out a piece of horrible crap. The piece of horrible crap assertion is supported by the fact that quality of the ascendancy release was very poor. Most of the performance problems introduced by ascendancy have since been resolved. However, I was a software engineer for over 40 years and I know that when poor quality is released to customers, it means that the whole development cycle was probably squeezed too much. The engineers just didn't have the time and resources to do a good job.

Yes you do at this point, you basically want the game to hold your hand through the lab.

Let me rephrase the bolded part :
"For people that don't like the lab, GGG should assist them so that they can get their ascendancy points easily".

The visibility as it is, is imho a design decision, this is supposed to be a labyrinth, one more time.
You do not agree with the design decisions there obviously ( I am not saying that nothing was rushed, there are always rushed things ), but this has nothing to do with quality.

If traps scare you, I'd say that GGG has done a pretty good job.
If ( as it definitely seems to you ), you guys complaining about the lab are a vocal minority, that means that most other ascending player do manage to go through it.

"

Fruz wrote:

"

Turtledove wrote:

I really don't expect anything on a platter especially when it comes to the horrible labyrinth. There are definitely patterns in the traps. I'm never going to learn those patterns because I hate doing labyrinth. Not doing labyrinth for the points is stupid because the points are very powerful. I really don't care. I play this game for fun and the labyrinth is just not fun so I'll never learn those patterns because I won't play it enough. So for people like me and for HC people that do labyrinth as little as possible, GGG should improve the visibility or improve the inset map for traps. I really believe that the engineers would have liked to but ran out of time and pushed out a piece of horrible crap. The piece of horrible crap assertion is supported by the fact that quality of the ascendancy release was very poor. Most of the performance problems introduced by ascendancy have since been resolved. However, I was a software engineer for over 40 years and I know that when poor quality is released to customers, it means that the whole development cycle was probably squeezed too much. The engineers just didn't have the time and resources to do a good job.

Yes you do at this point, you basically want the game to hold your hand through the lab.

Let me rephrase the bolded part :
"For people that don't like the lab, GGG should assist them so that they can get their ascendancy points easily".

The visibility as it is, is imho a design decision, this is supposed to be a labyrinth, one more time.
You do not agree with the design decisions there obviously ( I am not saying that nothing was rushed, there are always rushed things ), but this has nothing to do with quality.

If traps scare you, I'd say that GGG has done a pretty good job.
If ( as it definitely seems to you ), you guys complaining about the lab are a vocal minority, that means that most other ascending player do manage to go through it.

Traps do not scare me. I have always got through them when I wanted to. I've only done the labyrinth with Evasion based characters that have a fast movement rate. I haven't ever had difficulties getting through the traps. It is just tedious and boring. If I could plan out my route at least there would be something interesting. Instead it's just rush rush rush. Izarro is generally far more difficult, at least when I'm not way overleveled. But he is fun so that is good. The traps are just a fun killer. It is just not fun, instead it's boring and tedious.

people who spent their time improving instead of whining for a free stuff are no longer dying to traps. these are predictible, stationary and wont ever one shot you (unless you do a mistake and run along the big bloody blade)

traps are non issue for good players. and the mere fact that some are still debating them supports this theory. just spend 15 minutes 'knowing your foe'. youll quickly realize how trivial this stuff is. it is so trivial that people who know how to handle it are most likely laughing when reading how 'impossible' these traps are

note: im not touching the like/disslike part. only the 'traps are difficult' part.

and yes. people in general do not like challenges that they cannot beat. some however developed this habit of 'improving' to overcome a challenge. try it.

"

Severance2hBlade wrote:

Can we now stop connecting the fun factor with skill & ability? It's getting old.

How ironic! wouldn't you agree? :-)