Haven't really ever commented on lab, but I hate it.
" That's how I see it too. It won't change my game on a personal level, as I don't buy anything anyway. But thinking about the game in general, where most players buy everything, I can't see how this could be a good thing over the long term. |
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" The chests in the last room have lots of goodies, maps, gems, 75+ jewelry... I was just lucky this time. Most of the time I open some generic chest. " Basalt & Granite, with the odd enduring charge. But 5k is from non-buffed Izaro. Havent really tried a buffed fight, because I'm playing a glass cannon. The non-buffed version can be done by completely avoiding getting hit, if you play ranged. I'm not a pro-runner or anything, I mostly run the Uber lab only when I get +1 enchant or +1 key prophecy, to maximize the time investment. With this build I spend ~15min there. #Slowpoke. I'm just sayin that it's worth the effort, for the Asc points alone, but there's also goodies... All this Lab hate is a bit over the top. When night falls
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the lab hate is not over the top -
you just need to truely hate it and if your not playing the right build for it, thats an easy thing. When i started this game, it was not Tomb Raider nor Prince of Persia. Now that is exactly what GGG has turned this into. Now the only grind in the game that is kind of worth it has a fun factor below zero unless you have the perfect build for it and a hang for super mario. Sorry but all that silly and frustrating trap crap, i can´t take it, and i don´t even WANT to be good at it - i´m taking the haters side, screw it. After all that great time with this game that i enjoyed...i am at the edge of quitting. Yeah go ahead say it´s over the top. It´s easier not to understand why people dislike it. Others say "it´s the only place ggg has not turned into a kindergarden" Bla...it´s not about beeing hard. It´s about HOW the whole damn thing works. Just respect that there is a quite large number of people out there that have the opionion that a big important part of the game is not accessible for them, as they will just never get to like it. Most of those don´t mind a hard fight to get their last 2 asc points. They DO mind to run thorugh a pile of random bs that only a very vew build can take on real easy, and pull a lever here lever there jump over this sentry, run around this treadmill blabla... it is just repetitive, boring, frustrating, feels like a platform game from the 90ties and although i have deep respect for all the developing work put into it: I HATE THE LAB had to speak that out too. thanks for the thread. Last edited by Rakelholz#0466 on Jun 19, 2016, 5:39:23 PM
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" Please note that Tin_Foil_Hat is lying above. I am extremely honest and it is Tin_Foil_Hat that frequently spreads false information, like above. Please note that I PM'ed TFH and pleaded with him to please try to be more respectful when posting. He doubled down on his assertion above. The assertion above is a flat out lie by TFH because he was told this and repeated his false and defamatory statement that I'm trying to spend false information. Anyway, here is where Chris Wilson says that it is expected that a labyrinth run would be 45 minutes to an hour. http://www.ign.com/videos/2015/11/20/diablos-best-competitor-announces-its-fourth-expansion Chris makes that statement around the 8:30 mark. I sincerely plead with TFH that he stop making rude denigrating and defamatory statements about me. I'm no longer putting up with his posts. All he has to do is to simply stop. Regards, Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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" Again, more exaggeration. Trap gauntlets are a very small % of the lab run, you'll go through 1 - 3 at most, and very few of those are really nasty. The bolded part is false. Every build that has decent armor and some life regen, will be able to completely ignore and bruteforce traps. Everyone else just needs to be a bit more careful and not rush like an idiot. The Uber lab is min-max gravy. You'll get most of the Asc power with the prior 6 points (dont tell me you cant finish Merc Lab?). And >ascending< is not something that you should be given easily. The whole process is already trivialized with party carry - you can pay 5 chaos and get your uber points on a plate, if you cant do it yourself. That is what I call "over the top", yeah. Complaining, when the gameplay is already trivialized by party-trade. Ascend with precision... Or with 5 chaos orbs -_- When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Jun 19, 2016, 6:50:05 PM
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I think it's fairly safe to say the inclusion of the labyrinth has divided the community's more vocal participants into those that detest (I include myself in this group) the lab and those who simply adore it. However, for a lot of people, particularly those who follow build guides, I imagine running the labyrinth is seen as necessary, whether they actually enjoy it is another matter. I also imagine a lot of people will never get to run the end-game lab, just as there are many who never get to run Atziri, let alone Uber Atziri.
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" So it's also gated in favor of the left side and bottom class trees? Already knew this tho...good to have someone admit it whose all for having the lab as the only way to ascend instead of providing other challenges to ascend as an alternative. The lab is a nightmare for CI and the majority of problems for everyone are not the challenging boss fight but the traps and especially CI builds or evasion builds that don't spend a huge amount of skill points going to the complete opposite side of the tree to get hp regen if you even have hp... It is not an exaggeration at all especislly on HC where death means completely starting the whole game over. It is extremely limited to build type as far as success of completing it goes. I am just curious how many deaths the very few, "my way and only my way with no options guys" have had in the lab. Now since tinfoilhate wanted to bring up the good reasons for changing the trials as to why they were changed maybe everyone could also use a little logic on time sync and probability of death and see how friggin futile it is to most people on HC to keep trying merc and beyond labs having needed to gear to even get there just to test whether they are going to die to the never ending trap sets that lead to a very challenging fight before logic kicks on and they must either quit or cease attempting.... Last edited by johnce6#2478 on Jun 19, 2016, 7:46:39 PM
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" I tend to like characters with lots of movement speed that let me physically dodge and move around quickly. This is more on the right side of the tree. My experience with this type character in the labyrinth is that it is usually pretty easy. Although like you say I can still get hung up in multiple screens of traps. I suspect that the Witch part of the tree are the worst builds for labyrinth. GGG really should have made the little inset map more useful in trap areas. So that you could look at it and know where the safe areas are and what the proper route to take through the maps would be. My view is that this labyrinth content was poorly designed, debugged, and with no polish. The almost useless little inset map, when applied to traps, is an example of the poor design and lack of polish. Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Yup you are correct to say witches are horrible for it with shadows a close 2nd. All HC characters: I have had
8+ juggernaughts with 10%+ regen made norm lab trivial cruel only came close to dying 5 or so times died once to traps. 6+ level 65 and over full dodge evasion or mixed which limits you to either no hp regen or little lab is much tougher you must creep through everything or its too big of risk on a HC, but def easier than witch. Several CI chars that I dont even bother doing pass normal lab and only fully geared to the hilt before attempting. You are just wreckless on HC to be going past cruel lab on CI or low life and risking a huge exalt death cost due to the price of es gear. Without completely changing the mechanics of ES you absolutely limit shadows and witches and there can be no reconciliaton for those classes without completely changing core game mechanics. This alone is reason to provide alternative methods to ascending in my opinion. Not to mention customer retention. I cant imagine how many new and long term people have quit as a result of lab. I cant imagine trying this as anything but a seasones vet and it is still damn hard. I don't think they should remove lab at all. I don't mind if they tweaked made fw changes. I definitely think due to game restricting mechanics, the nature of the internet, the future of power creep and game expansion, and the unreconcilable class mechanic differences that ascendancy should have alternatives. Enchants alone are a huge reason for people to still run lab and providing alternative options to ascend I do not think in anyway would hurt the game or people's enjoyment of it. Last edited by johnce6#2478 on Jun 19, 2016, 8:25:36 PM
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" One of my basic principles for HC is to never get in a situation where I don't have a sure way out (assuming I can reach it in time...). And by that, I don't mean ALT-F4, I mean an in-game resource like an escape portal, a retreat route, a safe space, or whatever. One reason I stopped playing Diablo 3, not long after it came out, is that they disabled all escape routes in boss fights --- I understand that they didn't want people to cheese the bosses, but it was a very HC unfriendly approach in my opinion, and I'm glad PoE hasn't gone that route. I haven't tried the uber-lab (and likely never will), but even the standard labs (and trials) can ask you to go into traps blind and trust there will be a way out somewhere at the other end. Proud member of the Vocal Minority
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