Haven't really ever commented on lab, but I hate it.

"

Turtledove wrote:

For example, I haven't seen any statistics but people have mentioned that it appears there are fewer people playing hardcore, the assumption is that it is because of the labyrinth?

Yeap thats right, the amount of people online in any given time in Prophecy HC from day 5 and after is like we are 2months in the league.

I can thing of some reasons too why is that.

First the lack of different mechanics/rewards for each league. Since they both offer the same but the SC version offers a stress-free environment then people will choose that. Take notice that those people though were never HC players.

Second the addition of the endgame labyrinth. That is a very funny one, many wannabe-HC players changed from HC to SC the moment the uber lab was announced. Guess they find it mandatory too, and like bitches they were afraid of doing it in HC.

Third, the rebalance of many monsters. That also made a lot of people run. If the game was unforgiving before with the random one-shots now became even more dangerous with damage of certain monsters skills being overtuned.


The following is a treat for Fruz cause he seems like a reasonable guy. Please take 5 minutes mate and check the following videos and pictures ill link, one last time and then you can ignore every arcade-related comment. For see, for know, for believe.

Indiana Jones : Spike Trap
2:50:00 - Lava Floor
3:34:00 - Puzzle to progress
3:58:35 - Spike Trap
3:58:50 - Another Trap


Prince of Persian : Guillotine Trap(not currently in PoE)
10:23 - Timed Cranks
15:44 - Timed Cranks + Spike Traps
25:03 - Using Leap Slam to pass over Spike Traps

"

Bex_GGG wrote:

There's also a new gauntlet type where you have to move a payload object on rails through an area.

Now you saw the evidence, the comparison make a litte bit more sense right?

"

Yet, a stupid trap 20 levels below your character level can practically one shot that character. I think that is beyond ridiculous for an arpg!

it kills only the careless players. and these players should be killed, not rewarded. pay attention, focus and the traps are a joke

some might not like them - fair enough. but other than that they are a player's skill check: you do them or you die to them. and you can practice this as there are like 20-30 trap layout totals. no excuses

and some builds having it easier? sure. (just like other situations in this game where builds have it harder or easier) but point me to a build that CANNOT pass traps - i cannot think of any. the Izaro is another issue as there are builds that simply struggle vs him. but traps? please.

Spikes, saws and lava all in one. Enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sxY8pELhqM

You think a comparison can't be made, i think it can if you also take into account what i said in the previous pages and that's why i hate it. That was me trying to make people understand why the hate. I hope some people got it and it was not futile.

Absolutely hate it... not playing poe again till they make it optional.

Not really comparable. that Mario level requires perfect timing and execution, without a single error.

Lab traps allow the player many errors. If you run three pots and start the gauntlet at full life, you are allowed to be hit at least 8 times, before you run out of pots. You can be sloppy as hell and pot refills are everywhere.

ES builds have a harder time, so what? Take more time and make your execution more perfect. Melee has been the laughing stock in this game for years, now in the Lab, cheap armor + regen chars have an easier time than ES/hybrid/lowlife 500exa mirrored gear. All is good.

Maybe the Lab is comparable to vanilla Mario, first level, at best.

"

Regulator wrote:

The following is a treat for Fruz cause he seems like a reasonable guy. Please take 5 minutes mate and check the following videos and pictures ill link, one last time and then you can ignore every arcade-related comment. For see, for know, for believe.

Indiana Jones : Spike Trap
2:50:00 - Lava Floor
3:34:00 - Puzzle to progress
3:58:35 - Spike Trap
3:58:50 - Another Trap


Prince of Persian : Guillotine Trap(not currently in PoE)
10:23 - Timed Cranks
15:44 - Timed Cranks + Spike Traps
25:03 - Using Leap Slam to pass over Spike Traps

"

Bex_GGG wrote:

There's also a new gauntlet type where you have to move a payload object on rails through an area.

PoE new gantlet type

Indiana Jones

Now you saw the evidence, the comparison make a litte bit more sense right?

Actually, you are right, it's the Mario/Frogger comparison that really annoys me.
I did wrongly include the "new" Prince of Persia ( and Maybe Indiana Jones, don't remember mentioning it but I might have actually ) with the Mario/Frogger ones, I should not have done that.

So yeah, those one do make sense, that's my bad here.

One of the reasons why I dislike the Mario comparison that much might be because with mario, you jump over stuff and if you fall, it's straigth over ( those are the dangerous parts, outside of bosses of course ). Which makes it completely different.

"

Regulator wrote:

Third, the rebalance of many monsters. That also made a lot of people run. If the game was unforgiving before with the random one-shots now became even more dangerous with damage of certain monsters skills being overtuned.

I would say that the game was really unforgiving like 2 years ago.

The fact that GGG's policy kinda shifted to casual-attraction and updte the loots and made many things easier, and then brought back a single element that is more in the original HC line of the game is a bit weird to me.
I like it, but I can understand why it frustrates people, because people got more used to a quite "easier" PoE I feel ( and new players did not get to know what was before necessarily ).

Wow comparing Lab to Prince of Persia... I loved that game. Was playing it at ~10 years like a boss.

So, you guys are saying that at your 20 - 30, have a worse hand-eye coordination and skill proficiency than a 10-year old?

Get out! Take their coats and throw them out!!

"

morbo wrote:

Wow comparing Lab to Prince of Persia... I loved that game. Was playing it at ~10 years like a boss.

So, you guys are saying that at your 20 - 30, have a worse hand-eye coordination and skill proficiency than a 10-year old?

Get out! Take their coats and throw them out!!

Pressure would probably not be the same at all, since the time invested into the character is completely different.
Still, I get your point.

"

morbo wrote:

Wow comparing Lab to Prince of Persia... I loved that game. Was playing it at ~10 years like a boss.

So, you guys are saying that at your 20 - 30, have a worse hand-eye coordination and skill proficiency than a 10-year old?

Get out! Take their coats and throw them out!!

No, but you can't compare the awesome parts of dodging traps in PoP to the underwhelming and boring feeling of PoE traps. My coordination might be up (I'm 30 years old), but the technical issues of PoE due to the MMO side make it a way worse experience next to PoP, not to mention that PoP had more interesting puzzles and fight quality on the same level, while the traps in PoE are definetly not on a same level as the Izaro fights for example.

A Labyrinth with a complex maze layout, with different mechanics in each chamber, with traps that are this unforgiving only if you can't kill the mobs/attain the objective would be a way better approach from an ARPG point of view - it's counterproductive as it is because they wanted to make the gameplay a bit slower and the traps don't do nothing in this regard, they just encourage the "speed meta" more, and yes, I would like a Labyrinth with traps that you can't speed run, it would be a nice change of pace.

I said it before, if GGG is satisfied with the traps, they should become part of every aspect of the game, as they do have the nice advantage of affecting mobs also, and they should just become mandatory everywhere (that doesn't imply that they can't fine tune the damage output or the layouts, just that they have to make the traps available everywhere with a few adaptation to fit every zone).

"

morbo wrote:

Not really comparable. that Mario level requires perfect timing and execution, without a single error.

Lab traps allow the player many errors. If you run three pots and start the gauntlet at full life, you are allowed to be hit at least 8 times, before you run out of pots. You can be sloppy as hell and pot refills are everywhere.

ES builds have a harder time, so what? Take more time and make your execution more perfect. Melee has been the laughing stock in this game for years, now in the Lab, cheap armor + regen chars have an easier time than ES/hybrid/lowlife 500exa mirrored gear. All is good.

Maybe the Lab is comparable to vanilla Mario, first level, at best.

This is the hardest user created mario level there is. (at the time of its creation at least)
One last time. It's not about the difficulty. If you can compare it to any Mario level even the vanilla first level, i guess you get what i am saying. I like arpg gameplay not platformer gameplay and lab is stretching the arpg gameplay into platformer mario gameplay territories.

It was not futile, thank you.