I dont know how some be willingly ignorant and be ok with it. With Prophecy the game IS balanced around HAVING ascendancy classes
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Chris wrote:
Due to the power creep from Ascendancy, Cruel, Merciless and Map content requires various rebalances. Rather than apply arbitrary buffs to life and damage, we have instead added monsters with new skills to higher difficulties, and have applied various corrections to specific monster skills.
-Oak's Brute has been added to The Wetlands. This monster uses an Enrage skill periodically.
-Cannibal Fire-eater has been added to The Coast. This monster breathes fire.
-Kraityn's Sentry has been added to Broken Bridge. This monster uses Blast Rain.
-Spectral Swashbuckler has been added to The Ship Graveyard. This monster uses Spectral Throw
-Goatman Fire-raiser has been added to The Climb. This monster uses Magma Orb.
-Each of these monsters has also been added to the pool of random monsters in maps. They usually only spawn alone, or in a pair.
-Blood Elementals that use Gore Earthquake have been added to Maps.
-Some of the Water Elemental packs in Maps now contain ones that use Vortex.
-Some of the Sea Witch packs in Maps now contain ones that use Frostbolt.
-Some of the Ghost Pirate packs in Maps now contain ones that use Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Demon Packs in Maps now contain ones that use Demonic Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Ruined Titan packs in Maps now contain ones that use Earthquake.
-Some of the Goatman Shaman (Lightning) packs in Maps now contain ones that use Orb of Storms.
-Numerical improvements to several monster skills have been made. These are generally buffs to the spells cast by monsters.
So please enough with this "not mandatory" bullshit argument. Ascendancy points were mandatory the moment they were implemented simply because its part of the character customization in a fucking ARPG game. Even before Prophecy Chris stated that "atziri is optional, but the labyrinth due to ascendancy points IS NOT optional"
Also johnce6 i hope you dont mind but ill include your suggestion in my thread too, giving you the credit ofcourse. Anything to make the whole ordeal less of what currenly is, will make for an enhanced and better gaming experience. Inundated with cockroaches, I am
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions
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Posted byRegulator#4587on Jun 18, 2016, 7:42:57 AMAlpha Member
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"
Regulator wrote:
I dont know how some be willingly ignorant and be ok with it. With Prophecy the game IS balanced around HAVING ascendancy classes
"
Chris wrote:
Due to the power creep from Ascendancy, Cruel, Merciless and Map content requires various rebalances. Rather than apply arbitrary buffs to life and damage, we have instead added monsters with new skills to higher difficulties, and have applied various corrections to specific monster skills.
-Oak's Brute has been added to The Wetlands. This monster uses an Enrage skill periodically.
-Cannibal Fire-eater has been added to The Coast. This monster breathes fire.
-Kraityn's Sentry has been added to Broken Bridge. This monster uses Blast Rain.
-Spectral Swashbuckler has been added to The Ship Graveyard. This monster uses Spectral Throw
-Goatman Fire-raiser has been added to The Climb. This monster uses Magma Orb.
-Each of these monsters has also been added to the pool of random monsters in maps. They usually only spawn alone, or in a pair.
-Blood Elementals that use Gore Earthquake have been added to Maps.
-Some of the Water Elemental packs in Maps now contain ones that use Vortex.
-Some of the Sea Witch packs in Maps now contain ones that use Frostbolt.
-Some of the Ghost Pirate packs in Maps now contain ones that use Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Demon Packs in Maps now contain ones that use Demonic Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Ruined Titan packs in Maps now contain ones that use Earthquake.
-Some of the Goatman Shaman (Lightning) packs in Maps now contain ones that use Orb of Storms.
-Numerical improvements to several monster skills have been made. These are generally buffs to the spells cast by monsters.
So please enough with this "not mandatory" bullshit argument. Ascendancy points were mandatory the moment they were implemented simply because its part of the character customization in a fucking ARPG game. Even before Prophecy Chris stated that "atziri is optional, but the labyrinth due to ascendancy points IS NOT optional"
Also johnce6 i hope you dont mind but ill include your suggestion in my thread too, giving you the credit ofcourse. Anything to make the whole ordeal less of what currenly is, will make for an enhanced and better gaming experience.
Lists fodder mods that literally do nothing. This has already been addressed. I do find it funny how people think mobs that get one shot, still get one shot, are now somehow mystically dangerous and requires "mandatory" ascendancy points.
In before you say "they buffed monsters". None of the monsters were buffed, they were fixed and now they do the damage they were originally intended to do (skeletal mage sparkers for example).
Chris never stated they werent optional, this has already been addressed to because its contextual evidence take and twisted with semantics.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
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Posted byTin_Foil_Hat#0111on Jun 18, 2016, 8:05:18 AM
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For those who apparently cannot understand the difference of "core" and "optional" and their actual meaning.
 Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
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Posted byTin_Foil_Hat#0111on Jun 18, 2016, 8:06:16 AM
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"
sidtherat wrote:
btw. i do not know who Donald Trump is so i might miss the joke
Donald Trump knows all and is the ultimate winner. He will be the greatest president of the USA in all ways, everyone loves him. These are all absolute facts everyone knows, at least according to Donald Trump. The only concern anyone could possibly have about him is his small hands.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Jun 18, 2016, 8:08:07 AM
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"
Pyrokar wrote:
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Fruz wrote:
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Pyrokar wrote:
I edited some more things on my previous post. Zana is optional too. Which players don't have zana in their hideout? Isn't it stupid if you don't have her to reap the benefits? Forgoing the benefits is stupid. What i am saying is, the ascendacies are optional if you are stupid.
=> discussion about semantic.
This is not what optional means.
Optional means that you don't have to use/do it : you can choose to use/do it or not, and this will not keep you from beating the game.
You will be slower yeah, because it is a power up, but it's not relevant on such a scale here imho.
Since Wikipedia has already been used on this thread for quoting definitions :
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/optional
On an efficiency point of view, not using ascendancy classes would be really stupid, I definitely agree with this.
Same as Zana.
Ok, so we agree? Ascendacies are optional, but it's stupid to not get them. I guess what people disagree on is how relevant it is in an arpg to want to get the max out of your char. To me, it's blasphemy to not want to get the most out of my char/ create builds based on the new classes introduced to the game and if i don't, i absolutely have no reason to play PoE anymore. I am an old player and i have pretty much done everything. To me, ascendacies aren't optional (since i am not stupid, heh :P). It's the reason i even play this game anymore.
But, the reason i even play this game, still, is behind the lab which is the reason i don't even wanna play this game anymore.
So, saying "If you don't like the lab, don't do it. It's optional since ascendacies are optional." Is like saying "Be stupid or leave the game". It's not really something that i would like to do.
If you guys agree that its optional then why are you arguing ? The entire argument has been whether or not they are mandatory and core to the game. They arent.
Sure, its "stupid" not to pick them up but that doesnt mean that it isnt optional.
By that logic anyone who isnt playing an OP, 3 minute or less T15 clear build, is stupid and they should be playing one because its "mandatory". The majority of us DONT play those OP meta builds, most of us are play normal or unique builds that are simply fun to play.
Harvest sucks! But look at my decked out gear two weeks in!
Labyrinth salt farm miner.
"But my build diversity" , "Game is too hard!" - Meta drone playing the same 1-3 builds for years.
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Posted byTin_Foil_Hat#0111on Jun 18, 2016, 8:10:40 AM
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If you have two options. One is stupid, the other is smart. Is there an option at all?
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready. Last edited by Pyrokar#6587 on Jun 18, 2016, 8:22:11 AM
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Posted byPyrokar#6587on Jun 18, 2016, 8:21:45 AM
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"
Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:
If you guys agree that its optional then why are you arguing ? The entire argument has been whether or not they are mandatory and core to the game. They arent.
Sure, its "stupid" not to pick them up but that doesnt mean that it isnt optional.
By that logic anyone who isnt playing an OP, 3 minute or less T15 clear build, is stupid and they should be playing one because its "mandatory". The majority of us DONT play those OP meta builds, most of us are play normal or unique builds that are simply fun to play.
Sure, ascendancy points are optional just like using a rare helmet is optional. Or, using all your passive skill points is optional. It is stupid not to do it but, if you want to be stupid then it's optional. Of course it also means that most parts of the core game are optional. Also, ascendancy points became a core part of the game the moment they were released.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Posted byTurtledove#4014on Jun 18, 2016, 8:27:23 AM
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"
Regulator wrote:
I dont know how some be willingly ignorant and be ok with it. With Prophecy the game IS balanced around HAVING ascendancy classes
"
Chris wrote:
Due to the power creep from Ascendancy, Cruel, Merciless and Map content requires various rebalances. Rather than apply arbitrary buffs to life and damage, we have instead added monsters with new skills to higher difficulties, and have applied various corrections to specific monster skills.
-Oak's Brute has been added to The Wetlands. This monster uses an Enrage skill periodically.
-Cannibal Fire-eater has been added to The Coast. This monster breathes fire.
-Kraityn's Sentry has been added to Broken Bridge. This monster uses Blast Rain.
-Spectral Swashbuckler has been added to The Ship Graveyard. This monster uses Spectral Throw
-Goatman Fire-raiser has been added to The Climb. This monster uses Magma Orb.
-Each of these monsters has also been added to the pool of random monsters in maps. They usually only spawn alone, or in a pair.
-Blood Elementals that use Gore Earthquake have been added to Maps.
-Some of the Water Elemental packs in Maps now contain ones that use Vortex.
-Some of the Sea Witch packs in Maps now contain ones that use Frostbolt.
-Some of the Ghost Pirate packs in Maps now contain ones that use Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Demon Packs in Maps now contain ones that use Demonic Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Ruined Titan packs in Maps now contain ones that use Earthquake.
-Some of the Goatman Shaman (Lightning) packs in Maps now contain ones that use Orb of Storms.
-Numerical improvements to several monster skills have been made. These are generally buffs to the spells cast by monsters.
So please enough with this "not mandatory" bullshit argument. Ascendancy points were mandatory the moment they were implemented simply because its part of the character customization in a fucking ARPG game. Even before Prophecy Chris stated that "atziri is optional, but the labyrinth due to ascendancy points IS NOT optional"
Also johnce6 i hope you dont mind but ill include your suggestion in my thread too, giving you the credit ofcourse. Anything to make the whole ordeal less of what currenly is, will make for an enhanced and better gaming experience.
They can not accept that fact, because they would than accept that they were simply wrong. Hack even developer themselves don't know what they are talking about when they say its a core part of the game in most direct way possible, LOL. People should just move on with it, as the fact is, GGG considers the points core part of the game and are balancing the game around it, as we have facts from chris in podcast, and facts of the balance changes in patch notes that are happening because of the points. And this is only the start as more balance changes around points will come over time
Last edited by miljan#1261 on Jun 18, 2016, 8:45:24 AM
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Posted bymiljan#1261on Jun 18, 2016, 8:41:57 AM
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"
Regulator wrote:
I dont know how some be willingly ignorant and be ok with it. With Prophecy the game IS balanced around HAVING ascendancy classes
"
Chris wrote:
Due to the power creep from Ascendancy, Cruel, Merciless and Map content requires various rebalances. Rather than apply arbitrary buffs to life and damage, we have instead added monsters with new skills to higher difficulties, and have applied various corrections to specific monster skills.
-Oak's Brute has been added to The Wetlands. This monster uses an Enrage skill periodically.
-Cannibal Fire-eater has been added to The Coast. This monster breathes fire.
-Kraityn's Sentry has been added to Broken Bridge. This monster uses Blast Rain.
-Spectral Swashbuckler has been added to The Ship Graveyard. This monster uses Spectral Throw
-Goatman Fire-raiser has been added to The Climb. This monster uses Magma Orb.
-Each of these monsters has also been added to the pool of random monsters in maps. They usually only spawn alone, or in a pair.
-Blood Elementals that use Gore Earthquake have been added to Maps.
-Some of the Water Elemental packs in Maps now contain ones that use Vortex.
-Some of the Sea Witch packs in Maps now contain ones that use Frostbolt.
-Some of the Ghost Pirate packs in Maps now contain ones that use Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Demon Packs in Maps now contain ones that use Demonic Blade Vortex.
-Some of the Ruined Titan packs in Maps now contain ones that use Earthquake.
-Some of the Goatman Shaman (Lightning) packs in Maps now contain ones that use Orb of Storms.
-Numerical improvements to several monster skills have been made. These are generally buffs to the spells cast by monsters.
So please enough with this "not mandatory" bullshit argument. Ascendancy points were mandatory the moment they were implemented simply because its part of the character customization in a fucking ARPG game. Even before Prophecy Chris stated that "atziri is optional, but the labyrinth due to ascendancy points IS NOT optional"
Also johnce6 i hope you dont mind but ill include your suggestion in my thread too, giving you the credit ofcourse. Anything to make the whole ordeal less of what currenly is, will make for an enhanced and better gaming experience.
People had been complaining about early cruel and early merc feeling completely underpowered since a4 got implemented, hell we started hearing such things since Dominus came out.
So I think that ascendancy or not, that was scheduled and about to happen anyway.
The balance has started shifting a bit from ascendancy, so considering the lab as a core part to the games does make some sense now, but the thing is ... you can still like before not use them, because there are many ways of building your char that just one shot most things at high level, where those change do not matter.
It's just a power up, simple as that.
I have not doubt that it will be more significant in the future.
If you have a source about that statement of Chris, I'd be curious to see it.
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Pyrokar wrote:
If you have two options. One is stupid, the other is smart. Is there an option at all?
This is only from an efficiency point of view, not everyone shares that.
Not everybody is playing for efficiency, I'm sure there are people playing the game very casually, that just don't care about high level efficiency as an example.
Are they stupid ?
We cannot say that, we don't know them, it's irrelevant.
This is just a game, playing not for efficiency should not have anything surprising.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Jun 18, 2016, 12:52:20 PM
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Posted byFruz#6137on Jun 18, 2016, 12:41:01 PM
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Fruz wrote:
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Pyrokar wrote:
If you have two options. One is stupid, the other is smart. Is there an option at all?
This is only from an efficiency point of view, not everyone shares that.
Not everybody is playing for efficiency, I'm sure there are people playing the game very casually, that just don't care about high level efficiency as an example.
Are they stupid ?
We cannot say that, we don't know them, it's irrelevant.
This is just a game, playing not for efficiency should not have anything surprising.
What are we talking about now? We already established that the power of ascendacies resembles that of an extra link on your main skill or more. Not wanting that much power is stupid. Are you asking if there aren't any stupid people in this world? There are, but you aren't talking to them in this thread. You won't find any casuals here either. Casuals don't even bother posting, they just leave the game.
The fact is, that ascendacies make all the builds better and can make some builds, that were not powerful enough to be used before, into builds that are able to clear the highest tier of maps. So yea it is stupid to not get ascendacy whether you go for high efficiency or not. I am not talking about 3 min clearing t15 builds only, i am talking about every build. And no @Tinfoil people copying those builds aren't smart, smart are the people who create them or try to. I am not playing for efficiency either. My most played skill is Cleave and i am playing Lacerate this league. Hardly skills you'd call highly efficient. Lacerate is bugged even, making my char underperform.
I'd also like to remind you that i didn't talk about efficiency at all. I said power. That can be defensive, offensive or creative. Ascendacies give you the power to be more creative with your builds and you'd be stupid not to abuse that either.
So yea, if your option is to be stupid and not get an ascendacy and to get one. That's not really an option is it?
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready. Last edited by Pyrokar#6587 on Jun 18, 2016, 1:54:54 PM
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Posted byPyrokar#6587on Jun 18, 2016, 1:48:16 PM
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