Is this what an action RPG should look like?

I love the idea of the lab, and it's fun as it is.

The only beef I have is that I usually play a ton of chars,
and that's when the long, unforgiving nature of lab runs starts taking the piss out of me.

They should give 100% or 50% of the points up front when you enter a lab plaza,
like I suggested in my other post...

...AND really buff the rewards for completing a lab, so people want to keep playing it for that reason.

Imagine if current keystone nodes on the passive tree were locked, till you clear something hard, solo atziri or whatnot. Everybody would hate that.

I wouldn't bitch about the lab if the reward was passive ascendancy points,
in the form of a item or talisman that you keep in your bag to gain its effect and switch it around your own chars, account bound. But they are char bound points!

But ascendancy passives are passive skills, unique as keystones, and they should fall under the normal passive skill tree category, thus being easily available.

You don't need to go through this much trouble to get a passive point from the dweller, road blockage, fairgraves, sewers busts or freeing a spirit in the mines, so why should the bar be this ridiculously high and long for a few ascendancy points?

They are good, sure, but not THAT good, as in dumping almost 4 hours into every char!
(normal 10 min trial, 30 min run, add 20 mins for fail and retry,
cruel 10 min trial, 45 min run, add 30 mins for fail and retry,
merc 10 min trial, 60 min run, add 45 mins for fail and retry).

It's simply TOO MUCH to do to get a few ascendancy points which buff your char a little bit.
They don't make you immortal, that's why the time/cost is off putting.

And then add the time to change your ascendancy class in case it didn't turn out to be what you expected, and the (HOLY SHIT) cost of regretting ascendancy points, 5 regrets per point!!
5 chaos orbs per point... don't like your class? 30c down the toilet... wow, amazing.

Only rich elitists who play 90 minutes per hour, 50 hours a day, 12 days a week
defend the current lab, ascendancy system, and regret costs.

I think that, like pretty much every new content GGG has ever released, the Lab will be shortened over time. It's long now because it's new now.

I don't want it to be shortened now, but let's get real - it's going to get old eventually. So I probably will want it shorter later.

The idea of getting the reward for the quest without completing the quest is entitlement mentality at its worst.

I do think the Trials are not too tedious the first time, but a little silly to run multiple times. In another thread I've suggested reducing Trials to two per difficulty, but a different two every difficulty; this would mean Normal Labyrinth would use only two trap types, and Cruel only four. Essentially, I see the Lab as good content, and Trials as humble (but necessary(once)) tutorials.

Labs can already be ran sub 5 minutes. GGG needs to simply scale the lab level higher to make it more challenging whilst adding even higher enchant tiers.

It could literally replace end game mapping but sadly wont because it does not eat currency like maps do.

could vomit seeing sc player participating in a balance discussion ohh fuck i died 20 times now
now i know every fucking trap man that lab was so easy i could do it in 5min

how about u guys die in lab and are permitted to do it for 24 hours would it still be easy ...seriously wtf scale higher ?

that thing still pisses me of after 4 years ppl with unlimited lives giving balance advise


% dps is just dumb design a lvl 60+ should never be able to die in a normal trial cause of some lagspikes or not paying attention for 1 sec
and dont get me started on the teleporting on those % traps in bossfight

"

ventiman wrote:

could vomit seeing sc player participating in a balance discussion ohh fuck i died 20 times now
now i know every fucking trap man that lab was so easy i could do it in 5min

hpow about u guys die in lab and are permitted to do it for 24 hours would it still be easy ...seriously wtf scale higher ?

God forbid anyone but a seasoned HC veteran such as yourself could contribute to any sort of balance discussion in a game where the vast majority of players play SC.

Woe is me, let me shamefully exit the thread. What was I thinking voicing an opinion.

"

ventiman wrote:

could vomit seeing sc player participating in a balance discussion ohh fuck i died 20 times now
now i know every fucking trap man that lab was so easy i could do it in 5min

how about u guys die in lab and are permitted to do it for 24 hours would it still be easy ...seriously wtf scale higher ?

that thing still pisses me of after 4 years ppl with unlimited lives giving balance advise


% dps is just dumb design a lvl 60+ should never be able to die in a normal trial cause of some lagspikes or not paying attention for 1 sec
and dont get me started on the teleporting on those % traps in bossfight

SC players are playing the same content.. they just have more experience with high end content because they have the ability to try again and learn from their mistakes without completely starting over. Maybe you should listen to their advice instead of being so closed-minded and elitist.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

No, this isn't a Labyrinth QQ thread. Far from it.

Check out this video.
ZiggyD showing off Zerphi's Last Breath

"I like that you actually have to think about using this as well," quoth the Ziggy. But obviously he didn't have to think about where he's standing, or even which direction he's aiming. Seriously, check out the moment where Dominus is right it front of him and he completely misses with Spark.

This is what some of you people think this game is. What ARPGs are. Stand anywhere, spam skill, facetank all the things, bodies hit the floor around you. The items which let you achieve this are the good items; the skills which let you achieve this are the good skills.

This mentality is a cancer upon action role-playing games.

Why is there so much Labyrinth QQ? This is why: Positioning matters, and no amount of spam will ever kill a trap. The path is not linear but requires navigation. The boss requires you to actually pay attention and do specific things during the fight, or he comes back stronger.

The Labyrinth is the most anti-spam, anti-facetank, pro-positioning, pro-thinking content GGG has ever released. So Spam Nation despises it.

Good.

I hope you all you one-handed Netflix-watching beverage holders never get your Ascendancy points. And to those who play PoE with both hands primed and full attention, I salute you; your enchantments are well earned.

Good day, sirs.

thank you scrotie!!!!!! couldn't have said it better. this is exactly what is going on.

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ventiman wrote:

could vomit seeing sc player participating in a balance discussion ohh fuck i died 20 times now
now i know every fucking trap man that lab was so easy i could do it in 5min

how about u guys die in lab and are permitted to do it for 24 hours would it still be easy ...seriously wtf scale higher ?

that thing still pisses me of after 4 years ppl with unlimited lives giving balance advise


% dps is just dumb design a lvl 60+ should never be able to die in a normal trial cause of some lagspikes or not paying attention for 1 sec
and dont get me started on the teleporting on those % traps in bossfight

you arent old school. I had mastered this game several times before you even started. I do remember your constant whines in the forums back then though.

"

that thing still pisses me of after 4 years ppl with unlimited lives giving balance advise

That's ... rude ... and free. And since some HC players has been able to run it deathless in around 10 mins you have been proven wrong.

"

Heli0nix wrote:

"

that thing still pisses me of after 4 years ppl with unlimited lives giving balance advise

That's ... rude ... and free. And since some HC players has been able to run it deathless in around 10 mins you have been proven wrong.

Course we can run it deathless. If you are not at least capable of dodging the traps, i doubt you'd go HC in the first place.

What i am miffed about isnt the traps, its the gear barrier izaro represents for us.
And a level inapropriate gear barrier that gates things that makes level apropriate content easier is the most fucked up thing i can think of.

Of course the lab can stay as is, and i'll still participate in it to get my ascendency points. I did so 2x3 and 1x1 times already (and then died in map content) but its really, really counterintuitive.

But i guess when the name of the game is "overlevel that crap like crazy to faceroll it" instead of "offer aditional content to bored endgame players" and everyone is fine with heaving a temporary challange, im cool with that too.