Is this what an action RPG should look like?

I dont hold a beverage in my off hand. I hold my crotch. And I think im like 7 or 8 characters down and 20 odd to go with my ascendency points. When I want a challenge I play a challenging game. Not a diablo clone.

Pfft this whole "action rpg" scam been started by diablo and poe copied it. In reality it's always been nothing more than grind to win. Now then we actually have some action gameplay in poe it's time to do something about "hardcore mode" scam.

With so much QQ i expect ascendancy gonna be reworked. Prolly we need only fight with Izaro without going into labyrinth. Labyrinth going to be optional place for enchants.

Scrotie I feel your pain, and that's why we can't have nice things.

GGG has been increasingly spoon feeding players to draw more players to play the game. The game is WAAAAY too fast nowadays so there is no danger 99% of the time cause you just destroy everything with brain switch off.

PoE WASN'T like this when the player base was smaller and gearing wasn't so easy, and the power level of characters was also lower in general. But is how it is and I'm afrai d it's not going to change, now we are stuck with it, and every single time a player has to do more than click one freaking button to get something in the game he will whine. I hope they add 'fun' side stuff, to do but unfortunately if the rewards ar edecent then players will complain that is mandatory and blahblahblah. back to clicking oen button facerolling 24/7

Act3X, Act4/Malachai, and now the Labyrinth. The pattern is there, and the whiners keep coming.

@ OP. I haven't done the lab yet. But remember, not all of us have computers that run 9000 FPS. Not all of us have internet connections that you could talk to astronauts on Mars with with no latency. Not all of us have the reflexes of a 16 year old. Not all of us have invincible builds. And some of us just aren't very good gamers.

"

kkjhhbeb wrote:

@ OP. I haven't done the lab yet. But remember, not all of us have computers that run 9000 FPS. Not all of us have internet connections that you could talk to astronauts on Mars with with no latency. Not all of us have the reflexes of a 16 year old. Not all of us have invincible builds. And some of us just aren't very good gamers.

About the only thing about the Lab that I feel some degree of sympathy towards QQers about is lost chances due to internet troubles or server instability. These can cause failure through no fault on the player's part. And that sucks.

But that accounts for but a small (albeit significant) fraction of the current uproar. Most of the QQ is entitlement mentality for having issues with optional content which grants an optional, albeit powerful, reward.

It's pretty obvious that the whole game balance will resolve around the existence of sub-classes and people having them maxed out so saying that they are optional is a as ridiculous you can get as most of ascension keystones are extremely powerful and enable some great stuff that you can only dream about without ascending.

Spam nation rejoice! Whirling blades + crit + life to the rescue! (again)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4t46Rilb34

"

Assfinder wrote:

Spam nation rejoice! Whirling blades + crit + life to the rescue! (again)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4t46Rilb34

even faster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6JGT9NTTAQ

even with these speed runners (which is the reason for the daily lab ladder), Scrotie's point still stands: positioning is key

"

knac84 wrote:

Scrotie I feel your pain, and that's why we can't have nice things.

GGG has been increasingly spoon feeding players to draw more players to play the game. The game is WAAAAY too fast nowadays so there is no danger 99% of the time cause you just destroy everything with brain switch off.

PoE WASN'T like this when the player base was smaller and gearing wasn't so easy, and the power level of characters was also lower in general. But is how it is and I'm afrai d it's not going to change, now we are stuck with it, and every single time a player has to do more than click one freaking button to get something in the game he will whine. I hope they add 'fun' side stuff, to do but unfortunately if the rewards ar edecent then players will complain that is mandatory and blahblahblah. back to clicking oen button facerolling 24/7

Act3X, Act4/Malachai, and now the Labyrinth. The pattern is there, and the whiners keep coming.

No it wasn't.
Back in the day, it was more a matter of "Did you pick a FoTM Build? No? You're going to struggle" kind of scenario.
And please, don't pretend like this isn't true. Dual totem spork builds wiped the floor with all of its competitors. LA builds did as well. If anything, they made it easier for non-FoTM builds to actually get somewhere. Whereas back in the day, you'd just hit a wall and quit.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

About the only thing about the Lab that I feel some degree of sympathy towards QQers about is lost chances due to internet troubles or server instability. These can cause failure through no fault on the player's part. And that sucks.

But that accounts for but a small (albeit significant) fraction of the current uproar. Most of the QQ is entitlement mentality for having issues with optional content which grants an optional, albeit powerful, reward.

Scrotie with the intelligent, analytical posts you've made in the past it's hard to believe you think this.



Let's take a look at what the lab did wrong. (spoiler! it's not difficulty!)



- 1 - They gated ascendancy points behind the lab. This is bad because ascendancy points are low level rewards which affects basic character progression. This itself produces three problems;

- 1a -The points themselves don't have a large impact. Them being a lower level reward means they act on higher level rewards, namely items, to have an impact. And no this is not what defines them as optional or not.

- 1b - Players expect to freely have access to low level rewards that affect their ability to gain higher level rewards which makes the player feel like the effort required does not match the reward given when considering the ascendancy points. Which brings us to our third issue regarding this.

- 1c - The points being low level rewards and putting those rewards behind the lab makes the lab feel non-optional. This takes away choice in play style and exacerbates any discontentment produced if players don't find the lab fun and would have otherwise not chose to play it.


- 2 - With the ascendancy points being lower level you can expect every character would want to have access to them which produces our second problem. To some extent the lab had to be designed in terms of balance with that expectation in mind. They had to keep the players in mind who only wanted to rush throw it 2 or 3 times just to get their points. Which brings us to our third problem.

- 3 - It was split across all three difficulties. They had to cater to the people who just wanted to run the thing for their normal/cruel points but this produces a problem in that it puts it in limbo between mandatory and optional content. Now it's lost its meaning and it simply becomes a chore to get through just so you can get your points and continue playing the character. This reduces the quality of play one will have for each later difficulty and breezing through normal will set up expectations of difficulty for cruel and merc that could further make the experience less fun.

- 4 - It's not random. You can easily get a map that tells you exactly what to do and skip over any difficulty assuming you can defeat the boss. Why on earth make it a labyrinth at all then? It's completely self defeating and honestly baffling they did this.

- 5 - The trials. They lose their purpose almost immediately. And simply become yet another chore that reduces the quality of play over time.


How to fix the lab then?

- 1 - Remove ascendancy points from lab. Now you don't have to cater to casuals who just want to get through it for the points. Now it becomes purely optional and people don't feel forced to play it if they otherwise wouldn't have.

- 2 - Remove it from normal and cruel so it becomes endgame only. Now the lack of checkpoints, difficulty of traps and boss starts to make sense. Now we also understand this to be a challenging alternative endgame to maps.

- 3 - Make it random. Remove the ability to go online and get a map to breeze through it.

- 4 - Trials. They are fine as they are but make them more important to the process. Something along the lines of after completing the trials the player is rewarded with some random buff that gets applied during the next time they tackle the lab. Examples: Movement speed buff, quad light radius, increased damage against boss - w/e there are tons of possibilities.

- 5 - Make general monster encounters throughout the maze more meaningful. Examples: Rooms with puzzles that only unlock after defeating all the monsters in the room, w/e multitude of things along those general lines and make monster level/difficulty increase each time you go deeper into the lab.


(imho the lab in this context doesn't need checkpoints but I wouldn't be surprised if they did add them so, optional)