OP mechanics: cast on crit, vaal pact, surgeon flasks [2 boss, vuln Vaal Temple DEATHLESS]

WE DESERVE TO BE OP BECAUSE WE WORKED OUR ASSES OFF TO AFFORD IT. [Edited by support]

^lmao.

As to that last part, many have tried, many have failed :'(

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Diabeetusaurusrex wrote:

WE DESERVE TO BE OP BECAUSE WE WORKED OUR ASSES OFF TO AFFORD IT. [Edited by support]

I would mate with you.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

"Hey guys i can look up POE.XYZ listing, that must mean that those rings are worth that much and that people will buy it for that", they wont. Also youre looking up a STANDARD league prices. None of those rings sell, why ? because theyre overpriced pieces of junk.With 80 exalts in a new league you could completely gear out in GG items including a 6L chest, no one is going to buy a ring they can literally craft themselves for under 5 exalts for 80 ex lmao.

Obviously it's standard. You could see my items were in standard when I linked them. Obviously the prices would be different in temp leagues because exalts are worth more there...

I told you that I got an offer of 80ex for it and didn't sell. I also showed you the poe.trade prices. You're not the party who has experience buying/selling these rings, and yet you think you know better than me. Anyways it's irrelevant, you're not addressing any of the points in the opening post. Go troll someone else.

"

nait2k4 wrote:

I'm not saying don't leave feedback, I'm just suggesting that your feedback should have some actual value to it.

If you've discovered a particular use for a set of mechanics or interactions that is potentially game-breaking or meta-shifting, then by all means post it with the expectation that something will come of it. Rehashing topics that have been covered innumerable times, that the devs are fully aware (and apparently comfortable with), and have been slightly changed/balanced in an ongoing fashion, is not as valuable.

As it stands, you've provided a subjective belief that is objectively wrong.

You've got an excellent writing style, and very persuasive posts. It seems a waste of your time to be writing about topics like this.

Thanks for the compliment. I often find my writing is more confusing than how I meant for it to sound in my head. I think it's partly because I'm not a native English speaker despite speaking it for 20 yrs.

I don't know how you can say the feedback I'm providing is objectively wrong. You simply cannot beat the build I've been playing (which is strong for the reasons outlined in OP) for anywhere near comparable investment. For me to be objectively wrong, you would have to show be a build that can: run atziri in around 3:30, be viable for leveling to 100, be able to do uber atziri and core malachai with 0-1 deaths, have the highest dps in any 6man party in a temp league for a budget of 60ex in standard (40ex in Warbands~1m into the league). It's simply not possible. I've had people tell me they might as well sell their mirrored gear and do my build, as well as people asking me to delete my thread.

Instead I want the meta to change. I enjoy crafting builds or improving existing ones to new levels of OPness. Redoing old proven builds feels like a waste of time.

"

MatrixFactor wrote:

I don't know how you can say the feedback I'm providing is objectively wrong. You simply cannot beat the build I've been playing (which is strong for the reasons outlined in OP) for anywhere near comparable investment. For me to be objectively wrong, you would have to show be a build that can: run atziri in around 3:30, be viable for leveling to 100, be able to do uber atziri and core malachai with 0-1 deaths, have the highest dps in any 6man party in a temp league for a budget of 60ex in standard (40ex in Warbands~1m into the league). It's simply not possible. I've had people tell me they might as well sell their mirrored gear and do my build, as well as people asking me to delete my thread.

Instead I want the meta to change. I enjoy crafting builds or improving existing ones to new levels of OPness. Redoing old proven builds feels like a waste of time.

"

MatrixFactor wrote:

I believe unless the mechanics I'm highlighting are quickly reigned in, the metagame will become stale as people flock to them.

This is where I take issue - the "meta" is objectively not stale when the wider playerbase is taken into account.

I'm personally in a similar boat, now that I have tasted and enjoyed the budget builds that can scale both damage and clearspeed effectively, I find it hard to move to other builds lacking similar efficiency or requiring high currency investment. However, requesting entire shifts in balance and design for the game based on MY feelings and thoughts is not a realistic expectation.

As I said, outside of a small number of players (Top 100 ladder / streamers / racers) there is an OBJECTIVE fuckton of build diversity. This is evident in the vast number of skills/styles represented throughout the build forums. Our experiences do not entitle us to ask GGG to potentially impact heavily on a large number of builds that utilise these individual mechanics simply to put paid to 1 particular style/combination.

Evidence wise? Look at the fucking mess that LL/ST has become. Balance changes to leech/bloodrage/LMP/GMP/ST were all made in order to quell what had become a significant meta shift. Unfortunately, to achieve that end we're now in a position where a lot of other builds and skills have been negatively impacted just because of 1 specific combination of interactions.

Ghosts were objectively nerfed in IIR/IIQ and mechanics for EVERYTHING because of the farming style of 1 particular set of interactions/mechanics.

When we isolate a particular build style, demand it gets hit with the nerf bat, we expose a shit load of other players to the consequences.

The key is BALANCE of skills - risk & investment vs. reward, but with a mind to impact of other skills. Thats why I say "leave it to the pros, bros" because GGG has a bazillion bits of data to work with when trying to make these shifts. They haven't always been successful in the eyes of the playerbase, and they've made some fucking whopper cockups, but when we provide this kind of OP, we're writing from an extremely limited viewpoint that lacks the necessary experience and wider information.

I'll leave you to your thread now, I get the feeling I am being disrespectful. Sorry.

"

MatrixFactor wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

"Hey guys i can look up POE.XYZ listing, that must mean that those rings are worth that much and that people will buy it for that", they wont. Also youre looking up a STANDARD league prices. None of those rings sell, why ? because theyre overpriced pieces of junk.With 80 exalts in a new league you could completely gear out in GG items including a 6L chest, no one is going to buy a ring they can literally craft themselves for under 5 exalts for 80 ex lmao.

Obviously it's standard. You could see my items were in standard when I linked them. Obviously the prices would be different in temp leagues because exalts are worth more there...

I told you that I got an offer of 80ex for it and didn't sell. I also showed you the poe.trade prices. You're not the party who has experience buying/selling these rings, and yet you think you know better than me. Anyways it's irrelevant, you're not addressing any of the points in the opening post. Go troll someone else.

"

nait2k4 wrote:

I'm not saying don't leave feedback, I'm just suggesting that your feedback should have some actual value to it.

If you've discovered a particular use for a set of mechanics or interactions that is potentially game-breaking or meta-shifting, then by all means post it with the expectation that something will come of it. Rehashing topics that have been covered innumerable times, that the devs are fully aware (and apparently comfortable with), and have been slightly changed/balanced in an ongoing fashion, is not as valuable.

As it stands, you've provided a subjective belief that is objectively wrong.

You've got an excellent writing style, and very persuasive posts. It seems a waste of your time to be writing about topics like this.

Thanks for the compliment. I often find my writing is more confusing than how I meant for it to sound in my head. I think it's partly because I'm not a native English speaker despite speaking it for 20 yrs.

I don't know how you can say the feedback I'm providing is objectively wrong. You simply cannot beat the build I've been playing (which is strong for the reasons outlined in OP) for anywhere near comparable investment. For me to be objectively wrong, you would have to show be a build that can: run atziri in around 3:30, be viable for leveling to 100, be able to do uber atziri and core malachai with 0-1 deaths, have the highest dps in any 6man party in a temp league for a budget of 60ex in standard (40ex in Warbands~1m into the league). It's simply not possible. I've had people tell me they might as well sell their mirrored gear and do my build, as well as people asking me to delete my thread.

Instead I want the meta to change. I enjoy crafting builds or improving existing ones to new levels of OPness. Redoing old proven builds feels like a waste of time.

"Go troll somewhere else".

Not a single one of those rings that have been listed in standard have sold, theyre all verified. If you think that its a niche market and that your 5ex craft is worth 80ex, i dont know what to tell you. Believe what you want, no moron is going to offer 80ex on that ring, even worse is if you actually did get offered that you didnt take it (i mean you werent offered that much obviously, youre just making stuff up because anyone who actually knows trade would have taken that trade offer immediately).

You can try and sit here all day and tell me what you think its worth, fact is its not worth that much, multiple people are even telling you that. I mean if it makes you feel rich to think its worth 80 ex youre entitled to that feeling, but dont get mad when people tell you how it is.

Naw let him think his gear is worth something It's more amazing that way.

"

nait2k4 wrote:

Evidence wise? Look at the fucking mess that LL/ST has become. Balance changes to leech/bloodrage/LMP/GMP/ST were all made in order to quell what had become a significant meta shift. Unfortunately, to achieve that end we're now in a position where a lot of other builds and skills have been negatively impacted just because of 1 specific combination of interactions.

Ghosts were objectively nerfed in IIR/IIQ and mechanics for EVERYTHING because of the farming style of 1 particular set of interactions/mechanics.

When we isolate a particular build style, demand it gets hit with the nerf bat, we expose a shit load of other players to the consequences.

Well the thing is that this a trade based game. As a result what people do affects the entire economy. Ghost busting was too powerful. The main problem for ghosts in regular gameplay is their "go in a corner AI."

As for the LLST nerfs, I actually like that GGG shifts the meta. You're not guaranteed that your character that worked in 1.2 will work in 1.3. You have to think of something new. The fact that there was a lot of community outcry doesn't mean GGG's decisions were wrong IMO.

I understand the sentiment of people who want to keep their power without having to adapt to a new meta, but I think it's bad for the longevity of the game.

"

MatrixFactor wrote:

"

nait2k4 wrote:

Evidence wise? Look at the fucking mess that LL/ST has become. Balance changes to leech/bloodrage/LMP/GMP/ST were all made in order to quell what had become a significant meta shift. Unfortunately, to achieve that end we're now in a position where a lot of other builds and skills have been negatively impacted just because of 1 specific combination of interactions.

Ghosts were objectively nerfed in IIR/IIQ and mechanics for EVERYTHING because of the farming style of 1 particular set of interactions/mechanics.

When we isolate a particular build style, demand it gets hit with the nerf bat, we expose a shit load of other players to the consequences.

Well the thing is that this a trade based game. As a result what people do affects the entire economy. Ghost busting was too powerful. The main problem for ghosts in regular gameplay is their "go in a corner AI."

As for the LLST nerfs, I actually like that GGG shifts the meta. You're not guaranteed that your character that worked in 1.2 will work in 1.3. You have to think of something new. The fact that there was a lot of community outcry doesn't mean GGG's decisions were wrong IMO.

I understand the sentiment of people who want to keep their power without having to adapt to a new meta, but I think it's bad for the longevity of the game.

You and I may be talking at cross-purposes. I have no problem with meta-shifts, but I believe that we need to allow GGG to intepret the data they have at hand, and not use sweeping generalisations and knee-jerk reactionary posting to try and influence it.

We've seen the negative consequences of GGG balancing around these types of player recommendations/feedback/suggestions, and the impacts are felt across the whole game, not just the particular builds that are being targeted.

Where you and I probably differ most significantly is that I don't believe that nerfing is a positive or desirable outcome. I'd prefer to see the meta influenced by the buffing of another skill/mechanic/interaction, rather than the nerfing of one particular combination.

Anyways, its been fun to read your thread, so thanks for giving me something to do :)

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

You can try and sit here all day and tell me what you think its worth, fact is its not worth that much, multiple people are even telling you that. I mean if it makes you feel rich to think its worth 80 ex youre entitled to that feeling, but dont get mad when people tell you how it is.

Well don't know if the joke is on me, but I did sell the ring for 85exa equivalent.

If that's still not enough for you, feel free to pm the guy in the video and ask him to link you the ring.

Edit: and replaced it for 6ex (3 to buy + 3 to craft). Guess I can live with that.