OP mechanics: cast on crit, vaal pact, surgeon flasks [2 boss, vuln Vaal Temple DEATHLESS]

Let's look at your arguments again, shall we?

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MatrixFactor wrote:

My gear is expensive because I know its true value, but I bought it extremely underpriced because most people don't.

Examples

Bought for 1ex. Worth over 30.

Bought for 20c, worth over 30ex.

Bought for 10c, worth over 80ex.

"

I believe unless the mechanics I'm highlighting are quickly reigned in, the metagame will become stale as people flock to them.

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These mechanics have been around for over a year now, it's getting boring having the same stuff being top dog.

1. Your gear is worth over 140ex. You bought it for 2ex because you are so smart and/or lucky. And so can everybody!! Right?

2. You want this build nerfed because you are afraid that players will 'flock' to it. It's been possible for over a year now.

How many have 'flocked'? CoC dischargers everywhere, stomping Uber and Core nonstop, nobody plays any other builds, the meta game is completely dead... Right?


Just how many players do you think live in that virtual reality of yours? GGG needs to nerf these mechanics because they are impacting the game oh so much... for all 50 of you?

IMO your judgement is severely clouded, and you need a reality check. Maybe talk to somebody outside of your circle. Feedback is always good, but I hope the devs do a database query to see just how little these mechanics matter in the big picture and leave it alone.

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AxxiusEQ wrote:

Let's look at your arguments again, shall we?

"

MatrixFactor wrote:

My gear is expensive because I know its true value, but I bought it extremely underpriced because most people don't.

Examples

Bought for 1ex. Worth over 30.

Bought for 20c, worth over 30ex.

Bought for 10c, worth over 80ex.

"

I believe unless the mechanics I'm highlighting are quickly reigned in, the metagame will become stale as people flock to them.

"

These mechanics have been around for over a year now, it's getting boring having the same stuff being top dog.

1. Your gear is worth over 140ex. You bought it for 2ex because you are so smart and/or lucky. And so can everybody!! Right?

2. You want this build nerfed because you are afraid that players will 'flock' to it. It's been possible for over a year now.

How many have 'flocked'? CoC dischargers everywhere, stomping Uber and Core nonstop, nobody plays any other builds, the meta game is completely dead... Right?


Just how many players do you think live in that virtual reality of yours? GGG needs to nerf these mechanics because they are impacting the game oh so much... for all 50 of you?

IMO your judgement is severely clouded, and you need a reality check. Maybe talk to somebody outside of your circle. Feedback is always good, but I hope the devs do a database query to see just how little these mechanics matter in the big picture and leave it alone.

Lmao that gear isnt even remotely worth what hes claiming its worth. Holy shit lmao, especially that diamond ring, hahaha.

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MatrixFactor wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

do realize that other builds are able to do uber atziri and are stronger in other various ways? Its not like your build is anything unqiue or original it just utilizes a method that was shown long ago to keep flask uptime, yet for the majority of the game is fairly pointless?


If you want to show how OP this build is show me with the 81 Vaal Temple Map or better yet core map.


You do realize that most players that dedicate themselves to a good amount of playing complete the gearing of characters in 2-3 weeks or less? This has only gotten easier over time.


That is all.

Uber atziri in 1mhc. Show me those builds dude...

My point is that I can clear as fast as loath banana guys for 40ex invested. My gear is expensive because I know its true value, but I bought it extremely underpriced because most people don't.

Examples

Bought for 1ex. Worth over 30.

Bought for 20c, worth over 30ex.

Bought for 10c, worth over 80ex.

Also there are vods of me doing 82 core in my thread. If you have a vaal temple, i'm happy to do boss kill service in it for you, 12c fee.

Except youre not clearing faster than them at all. Ive watched your stream. People can clear faster than that with Ele Buzz saw.

Scold Vaal Molten Shell can clear faster too. Theres plenty of builds that clear faster.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Lmao that gear isnt even remotely worth what hes claiming its worth. Holy shit lmao, especially that diamond ring, hahaha.

I've been offered 80ex for the diamond ring, and didn't sell, but I guess you know better ... how?

"

AxxiusEQ wrote:

1. Your gear is worth over 140ex. You bought it for 2ex because you are so smart and/or lucky. And so can everybody!! Right?

2. You want this build nerfed because you are afraid that players will 'flock' to it. It's been possible for over a year now.

How many have 'flocked'? CoC dischargers everywhere, stomping Uber and Core nonstop, nobody plays any other builds, the meta game is completely dead... Right?


Just how many players do you think live in that virtual reality of yours? GGG needs to nerf these mechanics because they are impacting the game oh so much... for all 50 of you?

IMO your judgement is severely clouded, and you need a reality check. Maybe talk to somebody outside of your circle. Feedback is always good, but I hope the devs do a database query to see just how little these mechanics matter in the big picture and leave it alone.

Well my gear is expensive because of the chaos res. You can still play coc discharge without ES-chres gear, and that's what people have been doing since Mathil first posted Fakener in September 2014. He also survived uber atziri based off of surgeon flasks and vaal pact.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Except youre not clearing faster than them at all. Ive watched your stream. People can clear faster than that with Ele Buzz saw.

Scold Vaal Molten Shell can clear faster too. Theres plenty of builds that clear faster.

If you watched earlier today that was me doing atziri with 160iir 40iiq, talking to a viewer, and chatting to 5055 while playing. Some tryhard vods: 3:04 plateau, 3:55 atziri.

I've played scold's VMS (leveled to 95 and done uber with it) and it definitely doesn't clear faster.

But if you know builds that can clear faster, level to 100, and do uber atziri, please do share.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Lmao that gear isnt even remotely worth what hes claiming its worth. Holy shit lmao, especially that diamond ring, hahaha.

Yeah I got a good chuckle out of that 80 exalt lucky regal too, but didn't want to be the guy to say it.

"

MatrixFactor wrote:

You can still play coc discharge without ES-chres gear, and that's what people have been doing since Mathil first posted Fakener in September 2014. He also survived uber atziri based off of surgeon flasks and vaal pact.

So you've just answered your own concern. The synergy has been around for over a year, not really requiring all that super expensive stuff, and yet there is no CoC Discharge stampede.

It's just one of the Uber/Core viable builds. I don't understand why you think it should be nerfed. Why should it not be able to beat Uber/Eater? Who do you think that content is designed for? Should they nerf every build capable of beating it? Or do you think some builds are 'more deserving' than others?

Your other argument is that you've reached lv 100 with it in 3 months. Well, the build didn't have much to do with that, did it? You didn't get any special mega xp from the top bosses. Neither Uber nor especially Eater is worth doing for xp. You got the xp from the top tier maps that you had access to (care to tell us how much it cost you to sustain? especially before 2.0.2). Others got to lv 100 much faster, and you know very well what builds they used. GGG nerfed that map xp already, it's no longer possible to do so quickly.

Nerfing the most powerful builds just because they are the most powerful is so Blizzard. Those idiots had it declared their design ideology to analyze D3 skill usage, find and nerf the most used skills and buff the least used ones. And they kept doing it for quite a while, until, thankfully, they got fired (supposedly over the RMAH debacle, but I know a lot of players for whom the constant nerfs were as bad as RMAH).

Your build is not broken. It's very powerful, but there is nothing wrong with it. You are just tired of it because lv 100 took a lot of effort and investment. It must have been very intense. After 3 months of it, you are understandably ready to move on.

Look at it this way: it kept you in the game for 3 months. If every player spends 3 months in PoE on 1 interesting build - that's fantastic! With the build diversity PoE offers, this game can get a player hooked for years. GGG would be extremely unwise to ruin it with nerfs.

This thread is so 2014 <.<

Peace,

-Boem-

Cast on Crit So you say CoC doesn't have problems except for Cyclone, and your response is to nerf the support gem itself. That's just downright illogical. Per your own statements, you should be looking to nerf the attack speed on Cyclone, to limit its proc rate, not CoC itself. But frankly, since CoC involves huge DPS investment, usually including a low-defense chest, I don't think there is really a problem here. If anything, I'd be more interested in looking at Cyclone from a LGOH perspective and balancing it relative to other skills in that manner (in which case it still might get nerfed).

Instant Leech This is a problem, because if players can recover their life instantly, monsters need to do pretty huge amounts of damage instantly if they want to kill players. Instant healing leads to insane spike damage from a design point of view, and insane spike damage is a problem, so instant healing is going to have to go if we want insane spike damage to go.

Surgeon Flasks This is kind of a problem from my perspective, but I do not feel the problem has to do with being overpowered/imbalanced, so much as limiting design space. Essentially, the type of flask effects are limited because of Surgeon's, you're not going to get any new flask bases which do things which are really cool because Surgeon's would make them OP if they were allowed to exist. GGG gets around this by making unique flasks, and while I see how that's a somewhat viable workaround I don't like it because it just further solidifies a "unique or bust" gearing approach. I'd much rather Surgeon's wasn't in the game, and we a base flask which provides block chance, a base flask which provides some IIR and IIQ, etc., than the current Rumi's and Distillate. But that's just me. In short, Surgeon's mod leads to unique flasks (and an imperative for non-crit characters to use unique flasks rather than the Surgeon's-balanced normal flasks) from a design point of view, and that's only a problem if you view "unique flasks" (and obtaining/using them) as a problem.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Cast on Crit So you say CoC doesn't have problems except for Cyclone, and your response is to nerf the support gem itself. That's just downright illogical. Per your own statements, you should be looking to nerf the attack speed on Cyclone, to limit its proc rate, not CoC itself. But frankly, since CoC involves huge DPS investment, usually including a low-defense chest, I don't think there is really a problem here. If anything, I'd be more interested in looking at Cyclone from a LGOH perspective and balancing it relative to other skills in that manner (in which case it still might get nerfed).

Instant Leech This is a problem, because if players can recover their life instantly, monsters need to do pretty huge amounts of damage instantly if they want to kill players. Instant healing leads to insane spike damage from a design point of view, and insane spike damage is a problem, so instant healing is going to have to go if we want insane spike damage to go.

Surgeon Flasks This is kind of a problem from my perspective, but I do not feel the problem has to do with being overpowered/imbalanced, so much as limiting design space. Essentially, the type of flask effects are limited because of Surgeon's, you're not going to get any new flask bases which do things which are really cool because Surgeon's would make them OP if they were allowed to exist. GGG gets around this by making unique flasks, and while I see how that's a somewhat viable workaround I don't like it because it just further solidifies a "unique or bust" gearing approach. I'd much rather Surgeon's wasn't in the game, and we a base flask which provides block chance, a base flask which provides some IIR and IIQ, etc., than the current Rumi's and Distillate. But that's just me. In short, Surgeon's mod leads to unique flasks from a design point of view, and that's only a problem if you view "unique flasks" as a problem.

I never did understand why they made cyclone hit faster, rather then harder that change was just odd to me.

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goetzjam wrote:

I never did understand why they made cyclone hit faster, rather then harder that change was just odd to me.

I think it might have had something to do with how Multistrike isn't/wasn't really a desired support gem for the skill, but I still think fewer but harder hits is what Cyclone needs now.

Also edited my flask comments in previous post.