The amout of vendor trash makes me want to quit this game

Just give me the ability to filter what I see on the ground, and I will be happy.

The only whites and blues I ever want to see are 5L, 6L, and tri+ colours.

Lots of ground-loot filter options are a good idea, GGG.

The core of the issue is people not understanding random distribution. Granted, this is a VERY common issue; the human mind in general SUCKS at this thing. (this is partly what gives everyone the assumption they're ALL above-average drivers, all insisting that their schools produce ONLY above-average students, etc.)

On AVERAGE, running maps pays off. Much in this case, if you were to play the "Powerball" lottery when it had a $175 million jackpot, each ticket would have an AVERAGE return of $1. (as the odds are roughly 1:175 million) Or if you were to roll two 6-sided dice together, the AVERAGE result would be 7.

The key thing in all the above examples is sure, in the END it'll average that, but each case could result in VERY different things! Most lottery tickets will win you absolutely nothing... But that doesn't mean they should make it so that every one wins you at least a dollar; it's balanced already, and adding that (multiplying by the hundreds of millions of tickets purchased) would MASSIVELY disbalance it. To stay balanced, for every single ticket that DOES win $175M, there need to be $175M worth of tickets that won nothing. For every dice roll that gets boxcars (6+6) there needs to be a snakeeyes roll. (1+1)

The same goes for loot drops in *ANY* game. This works a bit more like the lottery than dice; because there is a VERY high-end possible result (Shav's or Mjolner, for instance) there is no SINGLE-case counterbalance. (there is no map result which suddenly costs you your Shav's, much like buying a single lottery ticket has no chance to suddenly cost you $175 million)

So, this means that in maps, the bulk of results will be BELOW average; the most common results will have to be a bit of a loss on your investment of map + crafting! Otherwise the odds of great stuff would get too common.

There's already real-world examples. One stark one is Doomsower. It is very much NOT a crappy item; it's a two-hander that can roll up to 451.1 pDPS! Any RARE in that range is worth around the 10c to an exalt, as that amount of damage is endgame viable.

However, the item drops comparatively commonly. So much that tons of these unique swords can be had for as little as a single chaos... And there's a handful often available for less. The item itself is definitely NOT garbage, but it's still vendor fodder, simply BECAUSE it drops so frequently.

So that's the result of WHY most items you get from a map have to be vendor trash; they are going to be no matter what. If they buffed them up to be better items, guess what? Those would become the new vendor trash. Another example: Apex of Sacrifice. Atziri ALWAYS drops one of a special uniques, as a reward for being able to not just fork over the cost of those sac fragments, but actually BEATING it all... And as a result, even Doryani's Invitation is less than 10c. Atziri's Step and Promise? Vendor trash.

So they aren't what fill maps because they're vendor trash... They're vendor trash because they fill maps.

+1 ACGIFT

Although in my opinion the need for clutter reduction has very little to do with vendor trash and a lot more to do with not-even-good-enough-to-vendor trash. We don't need so many white items cluttering up the screen. Gear IIQ, especial for map quantity and party bonuses, needs to be converted to IIR more than it is now.

"

to put this in BMBI terms:
instead of encouraging you to aim for that 400-pound massive, menacing solid steel weight, and once you do (with your teeth), encourage you to move on to the even-bigger 405-pund one - the game instead encourages you to do a thousand repetitions with tiny 5-pound dumbbells, for the completely random chance of your biceps getting big enough for the 10-pound ones. but you won't get them because they are not in the gym. they are in the marketplace so go trade for them.

HEY!!! there is nothing wrong with training for endurance. Fuck big bulky useless mussles. A lot of reps builds well defines muscles with lots of endurance :)

All you need to keep fit is the weight of your body and some creativity with the exercises you do.



also regarding loot drops....playing with a buddy on hc who has 120-ish 400-ish MF char is just like it used to be back in the days before the IIQ changes. Kind of fun/kind of annoying. But I like vendoring rares for alts cause no one is selling shit on HC. That place is like self found league with a few friends to share the drops with.

GRANTED, what I said above doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement in this situation.

I do concur with a lot of folks here, and there seems to be a consensus; the game DOES need more (read: BETTER) options for how the loot display works.

Basically, a toggle at the VERY least to hide, say, all white items that aren't 6S or R+G+B. More finer-tuning options would be better, but in many cases the screen can otherwise get RATHER overcluttered pretty quickly, and that DOES detract from the experience a bit.

The fact that the "junk" has been purposed to deliver us vendor recipe currency was, and is, a terrible idea. I don't see why GGG couldn't make these orbs simply drop instead. Finding more orbs would be fun and create a feeling of incentive when killing the monsters. Cashing in on stash clean-out day just doesn't do it for me, because I'm pissed that I'm standing in town and not out hunting.

GGG really just wants you to buy stash tabs (pay to win???)

Also, I've been in reasonable (about 80q) Courtyard maps and couldn't even see all the loot. I had to actually move it in order to ensure my shavs wasn't hiding under the UI (it wasn't ;)

You know how some things in life are just "magically awesome"? I feel like the drops in POE are exactly the opposite...

"

beefnuggy wrote:

The fact that the "junk" has been purposed to deliver us vendor recipe currency was, and is, a terrible idea. I don't see why GGG couldn't make these orbs simply drop instead. Finding more orbs would be fun and create a feeling of incentive when killing the monsters. Cashing in on stash clean-out day just doesn't do it for me, because I'm pissed that I'm standing in town and not out hunting.

GGG really just wants you to buy stash tabs (pay to win???)

Also, I've been in reasonable (about 80q) Courtyard maps and couldn't even see all the loot. I had to actually move it in order to ensure my shavs wasn't hiding under the UI (it wasn't ;)

You know how some things in life are just "magically awesome"? I feel like the drops in POE are exactly the opposite...

The difference here between having the currency just drop for you and working for it is actually huge.

Lets say GGG reduces or removes the recipe for chrome orbs and just increases the drop rate. Those players that were diligent before about picking up the recipe to sell are now not rewarded for doing so . On the opposite side of the spectrum there are players like yourself which rather just collect orbs all day then to pay any attention to what drops.

The current system rewards those players with a watchful eye, ensuring that only those that are willing are rewarded.

The idea of the vendor recipes was to create the ability to make something out of "nothing", not only is it not a terrible idea, its one of the best ideas GGG has ever had. Paired with the ability to make white and blue items useful with orbs, the system as a whole works amazingly well.

Stash tabs are not necessary to take advantage of most of the recipes. TBH I am surprised you even mentioned stash tabs as part of your argument at all because as far as I am concerned the only orb recipe that having extra stash space is even necessary is chance orbs and I have probably used that one a total of 6 times in my PoE career.

Just FYI if you don't know you can toggle the items on and of and it rearranges to better display on your screen.


Adjusting the droprate will not fix the problem, only an item filter can. Anyone care to argue this point, if not lets wait and see what act 4 comes with as far as QoL features before making this another 69 page thread discussing something that might already be planned for act 4.

he has a point though, goetzjam.
I don't remember when was the last time I actually did a Chaos or Regal recipe in Standard or Hardcore, because my stash, mules, and even Crafting Benches are just packed to the brim.
storing one whole set of items, is very, very space-consuming when you don't have the extra tabs.

but even if we look at the start of a temp league, where I have 4 whole empty tabs to play with, doing such recipes is just tedious town-time.
it's not "working for" something. it's dumpster-picking.
full-sets being the worst offender, but "X of a kind with same name" are bad too.

putting all that aside though, I don't want "Orbs". Orbs are money.
I want stuff. stuff that my characters can use, stuff worth building new characters for, and stuff which are just worth hoarding and looking at them in stash saying "heck yeah!".
and I want those stuff as a function of what I'm doing and what kind of nasty beasties I'm slaying. the nastier the better. with some RNG of course because completely guaranteed drops are boring - but not "pick a number between 1 and 1000000000^2" each time I pop a barrel, kill a rare monster with the worst-possible mods for my build (in a map with the worst possible mods for my build), or anything in between.
you can't call that, a "loot system". there's no "system" in rolling unbiased pseudo-random dice no matter what happens, and with little to no rule-sets whatsoever.
heck, even D&D has more than one kind of (biased) die, and D&D is pretty much as RNG as you can get.

"

johnKeys wrote:

he has a point though, goetzjam.
I don't remember when was the last time I actually did a Chaos or Regal recipe in Standard or Hardcore, because my stash, mules, and even Crafting Benches are just packed to the brim.
storing one whole set of items, is very, very space-consuming when you don't have the extra tabs.

but even if we look at the start of a temp league, where I have 4 whole empty tabs to play with, doing such recipes is just tedious town-time.
it's not "working for" something. it's dumpster-picking.
full-sets being the worst offender, but "X of a kind with same name" are bad too.

putting all that aside though, I don't want "Orbs". Orbs are money.
I want stuff. stuff that my characters can use, stuff worth building new characters for, and stuff which are just worth hoarding and looking at them in stash saying "heck yeah!".
and I want those stuff as a function of what I'm doing and what kind of nasty beasties I'm slaying. the nastier the better. with some RNG of course because completely guaranteed drops are boring - but not "pick a number between 1 and 1000000000^2" each time I pop a barrel, kill a rare monster with the worst-possible mods for my build (in a map with the worst possible mods for my build), or anything in between.
you can't call that, a "loot system". there's no "system" in rolling unbiased pseudo-random dice no matter what happens, and with little to no rule-sets whatsoever.
heck, even D&D has more than one kind of (biased) die, and D&D is pretty much as RNG as you can get.

So because some people dumpster pick its bad game design because players feel cheated if they don't?

I've only thought of what I would do if I only had 4 stash tabs, but I'd assume i'd create a lot of level 1 characters and name\use them specifically for what I would use 1 stash tab for.

What you described you want is what another game does, its called smart loot and at first it seems like a fantastic idea, however after a while you figure out it is a very, very bad idea. Smart loot has some merits on helping people only get relative gear for their build, problem is that everything in that game is pretty much the same, only you choose what method of killing you'd like to use.

You mention looting items worth value and that is what I am fighting to keep. High ilevel bases, good blue bases, ect all are worth something to me because I can TURN them into something valueable. I am not alone on this, which is why a loot filter will both solve the clutter problem for those that don't see these valuables as worth their time and reduce the clutter for those that do.

"smart loot" is a sales gimmick, created by the sales department of "that game", to sell more copies, goetzjam.

I'm talking about the "real" "smart loot", which is like an interface every single ARPG implements differently, and always did. believe it or not.
Path Of Exile... well it tries to. I mean, at least there are item tiers.
but it doesn't really add anything on top, and worst of all - it lets RNG dominate loot (and just about everything else), instead of using RNG for loot.
read that line again, to notice the huge difference.

and to connect this with the thread's topic, when you are rolling dice with pretty much anything being a possible outcome - you get lots of trash. a dumpster you spend far too much time picking for salvageable scrap, instead of killing monsters, doing quests, saving damsels in distress and whatnot.

but yeah I accepted the fact "risk/reward" in PoE will happen after hell freezes over, so at least loot filters would be nice. anything that would make the dumpster-picking less tedious.