The amout of vendor trash makes me want to quit this game

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johnKeys wrote:

"smart loot" is a sales gimmick, created by the sales department of "that game", to sell more copies, goetzjam.

I'm talking about the "real" "smart loot", which is like an interface every single ARPG implements differently, and always did. believe it or not.
Path Of Exile... well it tries to. I mean, at least there are item tiers.
but it doesn't really add anything on top, and worst of all - it lets RNG dominate loot (and just about everything else), instead of using RNG for loot.
read that line again, to notice the huge difference.

and to connect this with the thread's topic, when you are rolling dice with pretty much anything being a possible outcome - you get lots of trash. a dumpster you spend far too much time picking for salvageable scrap, instead of killing monsters, doing quests, saving damsels in distress and whatnot.

but yeah I accepted the fact "risk/reward" in PoE will happen after hell freezes over, so at least loot filters would be nice. anything that would make the dumpster-picking less tedious.

^_^ Rolls eyes, you want a system to where every item that drops holds value?

That can't happen because if every item held "value" then nothing would be worth anything. See GGG has to worry about the economy when it makes changes.

As it stands now you can reroll your RNG on items that drop, assuming of course the itemlevel is high enough for what your looking for. Can some more improvements be made for the crafting system, sure, but masters was a step in the right direction (except ever having hybrid allowed)

Whats great about a filter is it allows you to determine what is worth spending time picking up. Which is why the whole problem of vendor trash or too much clutter on the screen is resolved as you have no one to blame but yourself for what is seen (and picked up) on the screen.

Risk\reward was implemented in PoE with atziri, that however has turned into its own metagame and if I suspect anything GGG has learned that people for some reason actually hate risk\reward, at least they tire of it after ~1 year.

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goetzjam wrote:

The current system rewards those players with a watchful eye, ensuring that only those that are willing are rewarded.

The idea of the vendor recipes was to create the ability to make something out of "nothing", not only is it not a terrible idea, its one of the best ideas GGG has ever had. Paired with the ability to make white and blue items useful with orbs, the system as a whole works amazingly well.

I simply disagree with you. I don't believe players should be rewarded for picking through trash, nor do I feel like by having orbs simply drop, it would be a "hand-out". You kill the monsters, thus earning the drop. I challenge the entire idea that micro-management should be rewarded, after all, this is an ACTION rpg.

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goetzjam wrote:

^_^ Rolls eyes, you want a system to where every item that drops holds value?

You may have missed his point...maybe read it again.

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beefnuggy wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

The current system rewards those players with a watchful eye, ensuring that only those that are willing are rewarded.

The idea of the vendor recipes was to create the ability to make something out of "nothing", not only is it not a terrible idea, its one of the best ideas GGG has ever had. Paired with the ability to make white and blue items useful with orbs, the system as a whole works amazingly well.

I simply disagree with you. I don't believe players should be rewarded for picking through trash, nor do I feel like by having orbs simply drop, it would be a "hand-out". You kill the monsters, thus earning the drop. I challenge the entire idea that micro-management should be rewarded, after all, this is an ACTION rpg.

The vendor recipes allow for you to make something out of nothing. While I can respect your view of seeing "trash" as not worth your time, it very much is.

Consider this, orbs have inherit value the moment you pick them up, this means you are instantly rewarded with that value.

Looting items does not have inherit value, simply picking it up does not net you anything, you must convert the time into whatever currency it vendors for.

So as it stands now, if you pick thru trash, THEN vendor said "trash" you get rewarded. View chrome\jew\ect recipes as dumpster diving if you want, just because you find something that holds value it doesn't make it worth anything unless you get it to the place where you can trade it for what its worth.

^^ Yep, that indeed is how it is. But I believe the point of this discussion is to share our opinions about that. I guess I don't get the "but that's how it is so get over it" type reply.

We may also want to talk about how vendor recipes affect team-play viability. I have cheap-ass guildies that won't group because they won't give up their map portals. They want to come to town 5 times to haul junk for recipe. That's just sad to me. I long for the day we play this game and reminisce/laugh of the idea that we were all juggling vendor trash instead of (insert something awesome here).

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goetzjam wrote:

The vendor recipes allow for you to make something out of nothing. While I can respect your view of seeing "trash" as not worth your time, it very much is.

Indeed. Technically, there's no such thing as trash. Everything in PoE is recycled. So those "trash" rares = currency.

If one is above picking anything less than Mjolner or 5T1 rares, well, that's his decision. He should accept that he'll be getting less currency and move on. Crying to GGG for the game to be changed in a way that will punish players like myself, who do take the time to sort through the drops, is quite lame.

P.S. Yes to item filter, it benefits everyone and punishes no one.

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toyotatundra wrote:

Crying to GGG.....

It's actually a nice little discussion, welcome.

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beefnuggy wrote:

We may also want to talk about how vendor recipes affect team-play viability. I have cheap-ass guildies that won't group because they won't give up their map portals. They want to come to town 5 times to haul junk for recipe. That's just sad to me.

This isn't due to vendor recipes, this is due to your guildies.

And the best part, it has a very quick solution that doesn't involve changing the entire game just to suit you. You already know what it is.

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toyotatundra wrote:

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beefnuggy wrote:

We may also want to talk about how vendor recipes affect team-play viability. I have cheap-ass guildies that won't group because they won't give up their map portals. They want to come to town 5 times to haul junk for recipe. That's just sad to me.

This isn't due to vendor recipes, this is due to your guildies.

And the best part, it has a very quick solution that doesn't involve changing the entire game just to suit you. You already know what it is.

Wrong. It is a reality of POE. Many people don't play group to haul more loot via map portal. You say things like "just to suit you", which is immature. I look forward to you making a point in this discussion.

An ARPG can try to be about random affixes, or it can try to be about uniques. It can also try to be about both, but there is zero synergy in such an approach; it only still exists to this day because of misguided D2 nostalgia.

If the itemization is about affixes, everything without affixes is utter trash, unless there is an in-game vendor who will let you trade it in for affixes. Which isn't to say the game needs to waste time dropping items without affixes, because you can vendor "blue" or "yellow" items too.

If the itemization is about uniques, everything that isn't unique is utter trash, unless there is an in-game vendor who will let you trade it in for uniques. Which isn't to say the game needs to waste time dropping non-uniques, because you can vendor unique items too.

No matter how you look at it, white items dropping is utter shit. If I was making an ARPG, it would be affix-based, no unique items (but "unique affixes" which only roll on one particular base type), and white items wouldn't even fucking exist.