evasion v armor
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They are all useful.. it really depends on your build. That being said, having all Evasion and no ability to take 1 shots and you will fall. Just like if you can block a ton but once you get hit you die that's no good either.
However, in my opinion armor > evasion. You will get hit, and armor will help reduce how much damage you take. | |
" That is all armor can do. Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016 |
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" If we're talking about the range of incoming damage where * You will get 1-shotted with an evasion build * You will not get 1-shotted with an armor build then armor is superior in a situation where you cannot die. IGN: SplitEpimorphism
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" You underestimate reduction and overestimate armor. For example, 3 stacks charge, 12% reduction. lvl 20 enfeeble gives 34% less damage, i'm not sure if it's calculated after reductions. lightning coil with ~79% lightning resist is about ~32% dr. If enfeeble calculated after dr: 100-(12+32))*1,34=75% reduction If additive: 100-(12+32+34)= 78% reduction But i'm sleepy, i may made a mistake, but, this seems like a lot without armor. | |
" It all depends on the incoming damage (be it phyiscal, spell, projectiles, small, or big hit), if you get hit by Kole's smash, be it armor or evasion, you will get one-shotted, though you might get away with it with evasion, if you are lucky. If we are factoring only those two. Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game. - raics, 06.08.2016 Last edited by JohnNamikaze on Jan 2, 2014, 1:30:26 AM
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" This brings up an excellent point. I'm talking about reduction from armor. Charges stack with armor, but they don't stack with enfeeble (and other things). Really there should be separate terms for DR from armor, and DR from other sources. I'm not 100% sure how charges interact with lightning coil, but I expect they apply only to the physical damage that isn't converted to lightning. The stacking of charges with armor is what makes charges particularly powerful when paired with an armor build. IGN: SplitEpimorphism Last edited by syrioforel on Jan 2, 2014, 1:57:59 AM
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" There's I was very specific about those two bullet points. When a Kole smash will 1-shot an armor build, then that second condition is no longer satisfied. And, as you say, at least you would have had a chance to survive with evasion. Also, the chances of a crit coming through at all are dramatically lower. The point is that this "well, you'll get one shotted and die, and at least armor does something" argument is only valid in very specific cases. Also, when we're in the incoming damage range where an evasion build can take two shots without dying (or even three) the analysis changes dramatically. Quite possibly (oh the humanity!), there are cases where evasion does better, and there are cases where armor does better. IGN: SplitEpimorphism
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I'll lay out the pro and cons of an evasion build from the perspective of someone who has used one extensively. I'm assuming it's coupled with acrobatics and ondar's. I'm not even going to include other forms of reduction with armor although EC charges are pretty significant for armor users
Pros: - Projectile damage will have a 5% chance to hit you if you built your character decently(not counting dodge mechanics since not sure how they interact with this). This makes all projectile enemies a joke. - You will do better vs bosses when fighting them one on one. - You will be able to dodge spells which is a significant reduction. Cons: - Puncture will do an insane amount of damage. On a character with decent armor(5k~) you can easily run while being punctured in a vulnerability map. Armor reduces the damage of puncture twice. At 0 armor the puncture of some normal enemies will reduce your HP significantly if not immediately staunched. Vulnerability maps coupled with a nasty rare enemy can result in a massive damage puncture(8k within a few seconds). This is a huge con which people like to dismiss. - This came as a surprise but in 95% of fights highend evasion is just worse. With the same amount of armor you can do most map content without worrying about white and blue enemies, even rares do little damage in easier maps. Even with 10k+ evasion every encounter can lead to massive damage done to you. The benefit of evasion for 1v1 is a very minor part of maps which has made me question the use of evasion at all. Say you run a goat map with double damage mods, with an armor build I can manage to clear the map with relative ease. With evasion a small pack of 5 goatmen leaping could mean death/huge life loss. Personally I think the cons outweigh the pros. I made a 14k evasion character that had ondars and acrobatics which is a lot of points. Even then my armor characters felt much smoother to play. Leapers are one example, new act 3x physical mobs are all harder with evasion and devourers are insanely scary with evasion builds when a hard blue pack can hit for 4k+(or a fractured devourer..) Last edited by kasub on Jan 2, 2014, 2:02:59 AM
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I rarely ever get punctured, and if I do I just hit away/shoot way by leeching/life gain on hit back from the enemy. I have actually died more as an armor character than an evasion character.
Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016 |
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" I was speculating about this. I was wrong, it's 63% reduction, because i'm sure the reduction is calculated after enfeeble. It'd be insane if you could get 78% or even 75% reduction, because then with darkscorn CI build you'd get 100% reduction, if there is not a cap. So, with enfeeble you take less damage, and the reduction applies to it, this way, you get 63% with 3 endurance charges, and lightning coil, with no armor. Yes, armor and endurance charges stack, but charges give the exact same reduction for evasion build too. 1 endurance charge means 4% reduced physical damage taken with both armor and evasion builds. I could say, enfeeble "stacks" with armor, because the less damage you take, the more reduction you have, that's why an armor build is going to tank a vaal hit (and, if you are insanely stacking reduction from other sources, evasion build too, but it's not very likely), and that's how kerkrom died. The enfeeble fell off. Imo, evasion is much better for a ranged character, and with enfeeble, armor can tank heavy hits too, but it's not very likely that you are going to facetank vaal with a bow. We could say, enfeeble is op, and evasion has it's cons and pros, just like armor. By the way, i didn't try to say armor sucks, i tried to defend evasion here. And it's still true that armor isn't going to save you against heavy hits. Enfeeble will. But with evasion, you should not get into a situation where you'd get a vaal-like smash. |
