evasion v armor

I play Eva melee pretty much exclusively. You need to have max resist for late game. But I have yet to roll an armour build that had the survive ability of a solid ev, block & dodge build. You'll need plenty of life and gear is not the cheapest. But FTing dual bosses without getting hit once, priceless.

Never going to get the community to agree most of this topic.

Way too many what-ifs and doomsday scenarios. In most of them, regardless of what defenses you have, you're probably still going to die.

The other problem I think is that people haven't really played both types of builds.

Yeah, certain maps I avoid as evasion (Ghetto), but honestly, a lot of armor users avoid orchard...so, really the end result is hard counters.

No biggie, work around em, or risk dying.

OK...here's my input...since ppl seem to not understand there are different types of characters.

My first character was a bow ranger with decent evasion. I was doing quite well soloing until late act 3 cruel...then it got a little tough (being a noob and not geared very well either kinda sux lol). I decided to try IR since it sounded interesting, and I wanted to try different things out (live and learn). This move was a big mistake. Yes, while running grace, I did have a big boost in DR...but I got hit a LOT more. So I got the point back. I decided to try another type of character due to the fact I found no good bows along the way.

My next character was yet again a ranger. This time, though, I opted for a 1h+shield melee. With decent life leech, and evasion+armor, i was still taking too much damage. This made things very difficult (and slow) for progression. So I thought...why not...try IR yet again. The end result was OMFG THIS IS AWESOME!!! Not only was I able to survive large packs, but I wasn't even hitting 1/2 (or even 3/4) life before a full refill from life leech.

So the moral of the story:

It depends HOW you play your character/type.
Furthermore, it depends on ones gear*, skills used, and passive tree as well.
Maybe this is why you will never get everyone to agree/to each their own?


Keep in mind I'm still a noob...and only at the end of act3 cruel. Though, I think my point is still valid, even if it's just for leveling purposes.

*note to veteran players

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torturo wrote:

Nope, people that want to have fun play eva builds. Those that want to last long pick armor.

Yup and also because of fun. It's pretty peculiar that I didn't last so long with my previous eva based builds. Can say for eva build this really helps:
1) Taking Ondar's guile
2) Taking Acrobatics and up to Phase acrobatics
3) Having 2x remove bleeding flasks
4) Having good enough HP
5) Having good DPS

On the other side haven't last long even with armor based builds. With bow ranged chars you don't have that many options to really get high armor especially if you play with Blood magic passive. For that scenario the proposed meta-evasion Iron reflexes way can be proficient.

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Ludvator wrote:

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pajomk wrote:

Can somebody explain me, why and when should I take Iron Reflexes node i passive tree?
I dont get idea when better is evasion and when better is armor....

Its part of the forum myth about Iron reflexes/high armour being mandatory.

Armor is good against small physical ataacks hits - great for melee

If you play ranged Evasion is amazing because it makes you (with Ondars Guile)immune to projectile attacks including chaos ranged attacks, piety ice shots, devourers.. Small melee hitters should never get close to you when you are ranged

na na broh... dont tell the truth here, not good boy.

let them spread the shit with ir around... so my ev or ev/es stuff still keep very cheap, cuze its so "useless". lulz

:)

I think not everyone knows about how Armor works. I can imagine lots of players looking at their dmg reduction tooltip wondering "Why do I still get so much dmg from Cole?.. I know.. need more armor" ....

PS: should I also not mention utility skill Im using with ranger that makes 99% of melee bosses (any Rare melee mob, or merciless Oak for example) no real threat? ...(fyi it does not include proliferated freeze)

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Filousov wrote:

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torturo wrote:

Nope, people that want to have fun play eva builds. Those that want to last long pick armor.

Yup and also because of fun. It's pretty peculiar that I didn't last so long with my previous eva based builds. Can say for eva build this really helps:
1) Taking Ondar's guile
2) Taking Acrobatics and up to Phase acrobatics
3) Having 2x remove bleeding flasks
4) Having good enough HP
5) Having good DPS

On the other side haven't last long even with armor based builds. With bow ranged chars you don't have that many options to really get high armor especially if you play with Blood magic passive. For that scenario the proposed meta-evasion Iron reflexes way can be proficient.

Lol 2 remove bleed flask? 1 bleed, 1 for curses, bro.

Armor does NOT "prevent one shot", like people seem to think. It does nothing, even if you had over 50k Armor, you still take nearly 100% of the damage of a one shot.

Life. Life is the only thing that will truly save you from a one shot. (Or ES, if not Life char.)

Block and Dodge, really help reduce how often you get hit, way better than any other stat would. And they synergize really well with Evasion/Blind.

I honestly must say, that leveling an Acrobatics character was the most fun I had. Obviously you still have to stack Life, but the damage mitigation was miles beyond that of a pure Armor build.

Arctic Armor is also a nice alternative, for builds that can squeeze it in. It can trivialize certain forms of damage, eg. Voidbearers, Tittybishes, etc.

Also, everyone should be running CwDT+EC+ImmCall+IncDur, at least until it gets nerfed. It adds free damage prevention, that really evens the playing field between Eva and Armor builds.


My Melee Acrobatics char has fairly low Eva, and his effective chance to be hit, is ~10% (Evasion, Dodge, Block). When that fails, I've got high Life, and when Life fails, I have the [broken] CwDT combo.

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Sheriff_K wrote:

Armor does NOT "prevent one shot", like people seem to think. It does nothing, even if you had over 50k Armor, you still take nearly 100% of the damage of a one shot.

Life. Life is the only thing that will truly save you from a one shot. (Or ES, if not Life char.)

Block and Dodge, really help reduce how often you get hit, way better than any other stat would. And they synergize really well with Evasion/Blind.

I honestly must say, that leveling an Acrobatics character was the most fun I had. Obviously you still have to stack Life, but the damage mitigation was miles beyond that of a pure Armor build.

Arctic Armor is also a nice alternative, for builds that can squeeze it in. It can trivialize certain forms of damage, eg. Voidbearers, Tittybishes, etc.

Also, everyone should be running CwDT+EC+ImmCall+IncDur, at least until it gets nerfed. It adds free damage prevention, that really evens the playing field between Eva and Armor builds.


My Melee Acrobatics char has fairly low Eva, and his effective chance to be hit, is ~10% (Evasion, Dodge, Block). When that fails, I've got high Life, and when Life fails, I have the [broken] CwDT combo.

That was one of the reasons I didn't go acro, I wanted to get hit so it would trigger enduring cry + molten shell. Most people don't realize that small amounts of armor can actually make a huge difference. With 3 charges + Molten shell (only level 41), and the 500 armor from shield and a bit from belt, I have 30% dr.

You'll never prevent the 1 shot unless you have the life to do it. That's what most don't realize. Sure, armor does offer some reduction against Kole or the likes, but it's nowhere near what people seem to think it is.

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ozzy9832001 wrote:

That was one of the reasons I didn't go acro, I wanted to get hit so it would trigger enduring cry + molten shell. Most people don't realize that small amounts of armor can actually make a huge difference. With 3 charges + Molten shell (only level 41), and the 500 armor from shield and a bit from belt, I have 30% dr.

You'll never prevent the 1 shot unless you have the life to do it. That's what most don't realize. Sure, armor does offer some reduction against Kole or the likes, but it's nowhere near what people seem to think it is.

I'm using Daresso's Defiance, so I almost always have 4 Endurance Charges, which gives me 16% DR on top of the Armor I get from my Hybrid pieces. So even though I have 54% Eva, 62% Dodge, and 50% DW Block, I still have 20% DR from Armor/Charges. I also run Enfeeble, and have high Life.

It's worked out really well so far, my only problem so far was Evangelists on high Maps with crazy mods, but that was fixed once I started using CwDT+Immortal (and Party Members with Armor builds were having trouble with them as well.)


Also to clarify for some people:
20k Armor will only prevent ~500 Damage from an attack that'd do 6,000 Damage to you. Less Armor, will prevent nearly nothing. I've heard of people being oneshot at 6.4k+ HP on some Maps. So take that how you will. :P

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torturo wrote:

Sorry, your calculations are completely wrong so you make no sense. It's you that think you make sense.

There's no arguing with you ;).