evasion v armor

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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IriZe wrote:

I know how it works, and i meant, acrobatics is the least you should take. I planned to use acrobatics, and was the next thing i was going for, but until level 80-85, for 70-72 maps it wasnt important.

And, by not important, i meant that i'd rush health and other important keystones before going acrobatics, because for several levels, you may not want to criple your damage reduction or energy shield by it.

The thing is about pure evasion builds, damage reduction and energy shield are the last thing on your mind. What I mentioned + life nodes is all matters from the defense. Unless you have 5k+ armor and 1.5k+ ES, do not even bother. My ranged character barely had any damage reduction and a non-existent ES, so I was actually better of getting acrobatics when I was in the early 60s, and now I am in the 80s doing very well in maps, and even tackling maps that has EK bosses.


It all depends on the build, but if you are pure evasion, forget DR and ES.

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Nephalim wrote:

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IriZe wrote:

You just failed it.
Acrobatics isn't that important by the way. You may pick it up, but evasion works without that too.
Odnar's guile is yes, a very important keystone, but that's like saying armor is only good because you have armor% nodes on the skill tree.
If we made it to 80, and my friend to 85 with evasion without deaths, it shows that it can work, and it worked quite very well. You just have no idea how to get physical damage reduction from other sources.

Oh, and saying, "made it work on a lvl xy character in standard" means nothing, where death is "whatever", and if you fuck up something, you can just fix it after several deaths, and keep going.

Your elitism and is only overshadowed by your tactlessness.

A build's defensive viability is not instantly dismissed just because its on softcore. Death count can be kept arbitrarily low or zero if you practice hasty alt-f4 in addition to skipping every boss (And map) that poses even a slight chance of death or in the most extreme cases - programs that log you as soon as the life globe hits a certain point.

As an example, I could have just easily dismissed your level 85 hc characters as nothing more than a crude path of lifenodes/eva nodes build that stacked every defensive mechanism possible including every possible enduring charge but I didnt.

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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IriZe wrote:

Well, I'd say, damage reduction is important for evasion characters too, but through lightnin coil, enfeeble, and even endurance charges.

If we wanted to kill a monster with proximity shield that hits hard, and had to go close, we used enfeeble, for example.

Now you are factoring in other stuff that can easily be had for any build that requires it. My pure evasion build can have endurance charges and enfeeble if it wants to. Lightning Coil is different since it has to be properly build around it correctly.

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syrioforel wrote:

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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IriZe wrote:

Well, I'd say, damage reduction is important for evasion characters too, but through lightnin coil, enfeeble, and even endurance charges.

If we wanted to kill a monster with proximity shield that hits hard, and had to go close, we used enfeeble, for example.

Now you are factoring in other stuff that can easily be had for any build that requires it. My pure evasion build can have endurance charges and enfeeble if it wants to. Lightning Coil is different since it has to be properly build around it correctly.

Enfeeble and endurance charges also behave differently for armor builds vs. evade builds. That's not something to be easily dismissed.

Also, things like Blind need to be considered.

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IriZe wrote:

Uhm, there is no difference, or tell me what it is. They reduce damage for both armor and evasion users.

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

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syrioforel wrote:

Enfeeble and endurance charges also behave differently for armor builds vs. evade builds. That's not something to be easily dismissed.

Also, things like Blind need to be considered.

While they may behave differently, every little things matter in the long run. Blind is one of hell of a status ailments when you are not at the receiving end of it all. Of course, its only downside that it does nothing to spell damage since spell damage is always 100% on hit with the exception of phase acrobatics which you can dodge it, if it you happen to chance it.

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syrioforel wrote:

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IriZe wrote:

Uhm, there is no difference, or tell me what it is. They reduce damage for both armor and evasion users.

They both reduce damage. Endurance charges have a stronger effect for armor users, and as enfeeble also reduces monster accuracy, it has some interplay with the armor, evasion, or armor+evasion. (Smaller dmg means the armor is more effective, and a lowered accuracy makes the evasion stat more effective.)

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IriZe wrote:

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syrioforel wrote:

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IriZe wrote:

Uhm, there is no difference, or tell me what it is. They reduce damage for both armor and evasion users.

They both reduce damage. Endurance charges have a stronger effect for armor users, and as enfeeble also reduces monster accuracy, it has some interplay with the armor, evasion, or armor+evasion. (Smaller dmg means the armor is more effective, and a lowered accuracy makes the evasion stat more effective.)

Endurance charges have the same effects with evasion characters too. I'll quote an example from wiki:

"The physical damage reduction stacks with the damage reduction from Armour, so that they are both applied at the same time. For example, if a monster deals 100 damage, and you have 8% Damage Reduction from two endurance charges, and enough armour to prevent 30 of the 100 damage, the incoming damage would be reduced by 38."

With both evasion and armor, you reduce 8 damage with 8% reduction from charges. There is no difference.