...::: SFL Poll results and conclusions :::...

"

SibaSt wrote:

Regardless of whether sfl would be a good thing or not, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop saying "you can play selffound already". Or else that means you don't understand the point of hardcore leagues, and you think they should be removed !

Most of people saying "you can play selfound already" like myself have nothing against a SFL in itself, just as I have nothing against hardcore leagues although you could play standard and stop playing your character after dying once. It's because a lot of SFL supporters don't want the same game with trading disabled only (so as hardcore is the same game with no death allowed), they want it with easier crafting, better drop rates, better xp,... So the comparison with the hardcore league doesn't apply here, as standard and hardcore share the same game core.

1) GGG already said no

2) you can already play self found if you want

3) no need to split more the community

4) most of people asking for SFL would like to have better drop rate and so on, meaning an easy mode. Maybe the wrong game for them.

5) Obiwan

Good effort btw. I'm all for SFL, voted B, but they really just need to fix current trade like others have said. There is a reason the modern world doesn't use a barter system anymore but uses an intermediary currency like gold. GGG trying to be original and create a 'new' economic system ignores the fact that all economies have issues and need regulatory bodies. They just recreated the same old problem with a different name and then they think they get to pretend their's is better and the problem doesn't exist. They need to increase the effectiveness of crafting to reduce the gap between self found/crafting and trading as well as create a currency sink like making crafting itself cost multiple of the same currency type and have its cost be dynamic to reflect real inflation rates in each league's economy.

Of course all that could be fixed with a self found league and then they set the reward rate curve relative to a number of hours per character they want you to reach a certain percent capacity of perfection. But then you're making player interaction less relevant, but so would an AH. In D3 I only interacted with other players to party but it still felt like their presence wasn't really relevant due to drops being your own. Having everyone interact with the same drop pool makes everyone feel invested in the party in a way that D3 for example doesn't. Same with trading relative to an AH.

There is no easy answer and there will always be bad and good to any solution GGG chooses but the current trade/economy relative to a player's personal play time vs. reward expectations isn't good enough. I do think part of the problem is GGG's insistence on their dependence on spike damage to create difficulty and slow character development.

I want there to be an average of maybe 250-350 hours to reach something like 85% single character perfection and it's probably close right now but due to the extraordinarily random drops and crafting the self found progression feels really jerky which doesn't feel very good with the relatively extreme spikes in game difficulty which can feel unmanageable due to the aforementioned reliance on spike damage to impose difficulty. Which makes me actually not care about the death of my SC character when I'm questing. I'll just wait to level to progress and then the death penalty has no meaning nor the spike damage. I won't even try to evade death because I know if I survive I won't gain anything and if I die I won't lose anything. Which makes me feel like they need to allow the character to de-level like in FFXI for example so I care about my SC character's deaths (I know it's a super pain in the butt when you're trying to level up but because you can gain experience from anywhere even at 99 you could theoretically just level in a safe zone until your hearts content like in the south park WoW episode - which I know isn't reasonable in the none-standard leagues).

So we understand we have a multiple level problem with no single solution that fits well in all leagues and if a wrong solution was implemented it could very easily make the balance worse in many areas and better in others in a zero sum or negative sum outcome.

The result can't be perfect and it can't please everyone and I honestly don't know what the best solution for the most people is and I don't think GGG does either. Maybe the real solution is to just enjoy the game, appreciate your time with it and ride the good with the bad. I personally really enjoy my play time. I played FFXI for 7.5 years and I plan on playing this for as long as GGG supports it in a manor I can find palatable and every update made positive changes to the game in my opinion, been playing since CB (not on this account -lost my first accounts info) and I plan on playing this for that long as well it pleases me to play it that much.

Don't know who would actually read all that lol but /2centsgiven.



sorry no /tl;dr @.@

Am I seeing it right, 130 people took part in this poll?

Yeah, better not dismiss this.

"

Malone wrote:

1) GGG already said no

2) you can already play self found if you want

3) no need to split more the community

4) most of people asking for SFL would like to have better drop rate and so on, meaning an easy mode. Maybe the wrong game for them.

5) Obiwan

1. No, they didn't. They said "probably not." We're asking them to reconsider. And as Wittgenstein has pointed out already, they've made other "promises" and changed their minds.

2. We already do. We want a league with either better drop rates to offset the absence of trading, or change the success rates of orbs that drop already to offset the absence of trading.

3. Self found players are usually solo as well. They're not involved in the economy and they won't be missed. If you're truly worried about dividing the community then ask GGG to dismantle Nemesis, Domination, and Hardcore first.

4. You're the only one who thinks this would be "easy mode", and I'll bet you don't get past Act 1 without trading for godly gear to support your niche build. Try playing self-found where all you equip is what you can craft or find. Easy mode my ass.

5. Mr. Spock

Yea you can play this game self found. Yea its frustrating but it can be done.

I personally feel that the drop rates for rares and uniques are okeyish.
For me the problem is crafting. The orbs just don't drop and I need them because I want to use them to craft. I mean, how do you craft if some of the orbs just don't drop?


this is the highest that ever dropped for me and only the one so its pretty meh..

Fixing crafting will go a long way to improving solo and self found play styles, whether its done through increased drop rates or through another mechanism is another topic all together.

But yea, for me the game fails in the crafting department. A failing crafting system does not equal HARDCORE either.

"

bluefalcon74 wrote:

"

Malone wrote:

1) GGG already said no

2) you can already play self found if you want

3) no need to split more the community

4) most of people asking for SFL would like to have better drop rate and so on, meaning an easy mode. Maybe the wrong game for them.

5) Obiwan

1. No, they didn't. They said "probably not." We're asking them to reconsider. And as Wittgenstein has pointed out already, they've made other "promises" and changed their minds.

2. We already do. We want a league with either better drop rates to offset the absence of trading, or change the success rates of orbs that drop already to offset the absence of trading.

3. Self found players are usually solo as well. They're not involved in the economy and they won't be missed. If you're truly worried about dividing the community then ask GGG to dismantle Nemesis, Domination, and Hardcore first.

4. You're the only one who thinks this would be "easy mode", and I'll bet you don't get past Act 1 without trading for godly gear to support your niche build. Try playing self-found where all you equip is what you can craft or find. Easy mode my ass.

5. Mr. Spock

Agreed, people who want self found play so as it is and is already not part of the general community. So the argument about splitting the community is truly laughable.

Also on your 2nd point, the orbs are the real problem here.

I remember so many blizz fans saying that the AH will never be removed LOL.

I do not want to flame and I actually do not care much about a sfl league so my opinion probably does not matter.

However I see that there is a big discussion about the topic and also some investment in the discussion (this pool for example). Therefore, I want to make two remarks:

1.) as far as I heard GGG will never make any league "easier" (if that is the case for increased orb drops is not my point decide)

2.) I fear the pool is biased by the possible answers.

4 possible answers: strongly in favour, in favour, do not care, against

Even a homogeneous distribution of votes would favour a SFL league ;) with 50% in favour and 25% against.
Only if 1 out of 4 answers get more votes than the remaining three together you will have a results against. That means only if 75% of all votes will vote against the results is "negative"
On the other hand if 2 answers get in total 51% you will get a "positive" result.
neglecting the do not care option it gets even worse ;)
That does not sound very fair.


p.s. again I do not really care but I think it is not good that this pool is very unlikely to get a "negative" result

Players who play solo/self found who "want to craft" can. They just can't craft the top of the line gear that you see people who trade for resources produce. That's because it consumes resources to craft.

So... your either suggesting that resources be increased, or costs be lowered.

Either of these two will lower the "worth" of the very item you see now as desirable. YOU WOULD STILL WANT WHAT YOU CAN'T HAVE. It would just a be a new level of "can't".

Here's easy mode for the trade barons amongst you......





Character is level 71,had zero orbs left,two or three maps,a few chisels and is dead in the water.

Look at that gear (including gems).

Easy mode my ass,I'm starting think some of you guys couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag in an ARPG without doin a few trades first.


Have at it guys ! It's easy mode !

Top gear indeed Shags..... it's not uncommon for self found to 30 levels behind in gear.

Shags,you know as well as I do that *worth* to a self founder is radically different to traders *worth* and that one mans trash is a another mans treasure.


It's not the amount of orb drops,it's the quality of the gambling that is horrible.