Remove MF completely from game

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

removed by Admin

Holy shit!!

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big_aug wrote:

Just reroll dual spork like everyone else, including myself, has done or is doing.

The more I think on this the more I think that multiple viewpoints are looking at this problem differently because of different goals & objectives. For me, I want a single player game (no grouping... or at least not mandatory grouping... and no mandatory trading). Obviously that is not the design of this game so the loot system is horribly broken from my perspective. To fix the game for me you'd need to look at underlying dynamics of loot generation before looking at MF. For me, MF is pointless because you can multiply zero by whatever you want and come up with zero.

For someone playing the game more as GGG envisioned (mandatory trade) I think the loot system works just fine at least up to maps. The way I measure that is that all of my characters have had sufficient wealth to buy what they needed in the economy. In other words, if you want to buy & sell then character progression flows smoothly through the main story line and all three difficulties and every boss can be solo'd. That seemed to be true with zero MF. Adding MF in gave me a few more shards but was hardly a game changing dynamic.

The whole map thing is beyond my experience. All I can say is that I ran one map. I observed the risk/reward ratio was stupid. I didn't see the point of running others.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

You are so divided from me on this issue.
You say that me building strong characters rather than MF is growing my ePeen? WTF? That's the complete opposite bro. Are you on crack? I'm not looting to make sales, I'm not trying to be the "big man". My enjoyment of this game is personal. Not you, or anyone else (other than GGG) can deny me of that.

On a fundamental level, I differ from most PoE players in opinion (mostly youths that are clueless).

I understand if D3 was your gateway into aRPG's, but this isn't the case for most of us.
Stop comparing PoE to D3, and start comparing it with some "real" aRPGs.

Personally, I was a big fan of Gauntlet in the 80's, which to me is far more like PoE than Rogue or whatever variant of dungeon crawler.

"player one needs food badly" /muffled 8 bit voices (anyone remember populous on MS?)

I also don't understand the mantality of the players these days. When I started to play online almost 20 years ago, I wasn't giving a rat's ass to what the player next to me could do. I enjoyed the games from the start to the end, and that was all. Then, a well known MMO arrived and destroyed everything, and for many pleyers now, the game really begins at level max, a build 1% inferior isn't worth playing and min/maxing is the new rule, even before enjoying the game. Their new rule, to enjoy a game, is : I need to have the best build, the best killingspeed, the best loots.

And if they don't like a different build, they even spam during countless pages how to nerf them to the ground. And the company who created this well known MMO tried to kill the aRPG's, but the gamers told them to GTFO. But some arer willing to continue in that way : an easy levelling, a stupid end-game and sure loots for killing a "OMG nerfed to the ground boss".

I will say it again, but the new players are now basically jealous of everything. If their build isn't the best, if they cannot handle a stats, or whatever : let's spam to nerf it !

@big_aug when I mapped a bit (HC and Onslaught), I was mettng less and less sporkers. I saw a lot of them when I was levelling and almost none after that.

MF should have a relatively low cap, so people don't need a culling slave in each group. I don't like MF because it makes all my 2-3 res gear with good stats useless because of no MF. For me the game is only fun with MF because I get loot. Without MF i get nothing and i get bored too fast. I gimp myself for more and more MF and get better stats on items that cant get MF like chest or rare belts just to run more MF. MF makes caster builds OP because melee can't sacrifice so much surv for rarity/quantity. You can run MF as spork or any build with a totem/summoner/ek/fp/ea/discharge even LA, ROA to an extent on almost any map solo. That's not good and balancing game experience around that is not good either.

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lososthefish wrote:

MF should have a relatively low cap, so people don't need a culling slave in each group. I don't like MF because it makes all my 2-3 res gear with good stats useless because of no MF. For me the game is only fun with MF because I get loot. Without MF i get nothing and i get bored too fast. I gimp myself for more and more MF and get better stats on items that cant get MF like chest or rare belts just to run more MF. MF makes caster builds OP because melee can't sacrifice so much surv for rarity/quantity. You can run MF as spork or any build with a totem/summoner/ek/fp/ea/discharge even LA, ROA to an extent on almost any map solo. That's not good and balancing game experience around that is not good either.

Well said.

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lososthefish wrote:

You can run MF as spork or any build with a totem/summoner/ek/fp/ea/discharge even LA, ROA to an extent on almost any map solo. That's not good and balancing game experience around that is not good either.

Aaaah... and another part of the viewpoint differences emerges. I'm a hardcore player. I don't look at any one character as anything significant. I'm playing a meta-game involving my overall net worth and overall stable of active characters. So to me the statement above isn't a problem. Yes, the game dynamics force having a MF character (LOL, assuming I believed that had any value anyway). So I build one and it becomes a part of my tool set to manage my overall account status. It doesn't bother me that I have to build a sporker to do this. It wouldn't bother me if they nerfed spork and I had to build another. It's all part of the meta-game to me.

What bothers me is that I don't really believe any of it matters since in my game experience ALL of the pinatas are empty. The only difference one pinata to the next is which particular types of garbage they will drop for me to vendor and turn into useless shardage.

One can assume one can perceive the game in a strange and awkwardly fashion, yet one can't assume that elitist path is enjoyable for anyone else, but oneself, coming from the standpoint, that oneself is special because of the statements oneself creates. I don't want to generalize, but I think, that the current meta with MF is boring, because it further limits your creativity in correlation to being effective. From this standpoint being hardcore is playing the game in the least entertaining way and more and more effectively theory-crafting it's cutting edge. Hardcore exceeds the curve of difficulty and follows down to the ways of a chore as much as you can get and taking that as a proof of hardcore behaviour. Hardcore moves from the bench of skill, to the bench of time. This type of hardcore gaming is based in belief that the game has to be as unapproachable to a casual gamer, as it can, to be in fact hardcore. This is not true, because hardcore and casual are not antonyms. Why is that? Because you can have casual hardcore sex for example. When something is time consuming and not fun it does not make it hardcore, though the elitist ways make you enjoy the unfun scenario because replaying it makes you feel special. I strongly believe that an MF char should not be required, or that the cap should be reachable for any type of char you have fun with, not making it a gimp. The balance was shaken the most with the loot window, that made melee worse at looting stuff fast, because they are close to it. It was great because you could run MF in group as ranged, but you were too squishy to loot it fast then. Now melee is just inferior in both looting capabilities and MF that can't be weared by them. From the elitist hardcore point of view playing melee can be only hardcore if you do it for more challenge.

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Hovergame wrote:

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

You are so divided from me on this issue.
You say that me building strong characters rather than MF is growing my ePeen? WTF? That's the complete opposite bro. Are you on crack? I'm not looting to make sales, I'm not trying to be the "big man". My enjoyment of this game is personal. Not you, or anyone else (other than GGG) can deny me of that.

On a fundamental level, I differ from most PoE players in opinion (mostly youths that are clueless).

I understand if D3 was your gateway into aRPG's, but this isn't the case for most of us.
Stop comparing PoE to D3, and start comparing it with some "real" aRPGs.

Personally, I was a big fan of Gauntlet in the 80's, which to me is far more like PoE than Rogue or whatever variant of dungeon crawler.

"player one needs food badly" /muffled 8 bit voices (anyone remember populous on MS?)

I also don't understand the mantality of the players these days. When I started to play online almost 20 years ago, I wasn't giving a rat's ass to what the player next to me could do. I enjoyed the games from the start to the end, and that was all. Then, a well known MMO arrived and destroyed everything, and for many pleyers now, the game really begins at level max, a build 1% inferior isn't worth playing and min/maxing is the new rule, even before enjoying the game. Their new rule, to enjoy a game, is : I need to have the best build, the best killingspeed, the best loots.

And if they don't like a different build, they even spam during countless pages how to nerf them to the ground. And the company who created this well known MMO tried to kill the aRPG's, but the gamers told them to GTFO. But some arer willing to continue in that way : an easy levelling, a stupid end-game and sure loots for killing a "OMG nerfed to the ground boss".

I will say it again, but the new players are now basically jealous of everything. If their build isn't the best, if they cannot handle a stats, or whatever : let's spam to nerf it !

@big_aug when I mapped a bit (HC and Onslaught), I was mettng less and less sporkers. I saw a lot of them when I was levelling and almost none after that.

Why you´re so aggressive? Is this your personal holy crusade?

remove mf from the game will make the player play build instead of making magic finder + it will enable a better economy for a longer time !


REMOVE IR IQ FROM GAME and you have a Better game !

maybe you can put new logistic in map like adding modifier that gives mf and adding more that 6 stats that a map can get !

thx !

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lososthefish wrote:

From this standpoint being hardcore is playing the game in the least entertaining way and more and more effectively theory-crafting it's cutting edge.

I should have been specific. I'm used to the term "hardcore" meaning "dead is dead". I have never been a hardcore player as in "I live for video games" nor do I believe that work=fun. I think a game oughta be fun to play otherwise they should pay me to play it not the other way around.

That being said, you don't get to define what is fun for me. I happen to find a lot of entertainment in that theory-crafting which you disdain. In fact, the very reason I like "dead = dead" is because it highlights balance decisions rather than allowing you to sweep them under the rug with infinite resurrections and infinite health. It makes all that theory-crafting both more difficult and more important. That is "fun" to me.

And yes, it's certainly true that little children think things in a video game can be "elitist". But I'm assuming that for most of us grown-ups we find that idea amusing. If someone told me how badass they were because they got to level whatever in some video game I'd be asking something like, "When was the last life you took or saved in the real world?" I mean seriously, if I'm going to start jockeying for position I'd at least like the playing field to have some meaning. In point of fact I'm not sure I've ever had anyone other than a literal child mock "carebears" or "casual gamers" in the real world.

Returning to the thread
As I've thought about this what I've realized is that taking out magic find would affect my game experience in exactly one way. When I start a new "dead = dead" game the first character I build is the safest possible magic-finder. This is done to fund other characters. So if we got rid of magic find then the first two weeks or so of my game play would be spent on something else. Other than that, magic find doesn't impact my personal play style so on this issue I'm in the "Whatever makes everyone else happy" camp.

All of that, of course, assumes a game in which finding loot was a feasible thing and magic find had some purpose.