This is taken from another thread but the math is sound.
"
Player IIQ and Group IIQ are multiplicative.
Directly from the "Mechanics Thread":
"The total player bonus stacks multiplicatively with the total party & monster bonus."
Under "Drop Rates".
This was clarified by Mark (I believe, since he handles this stuff).
This means that if you have 100% IIQ giving you a total Item Quantity (IQ) of 200% and are in a party of 6 people in total that has a IQ of 350%, and you get the killing blow, you get 700% or 7 times the items on average.
Since Item Rarity (IR) is essentially (in all intents and purposes) multiplicative with IQ, that would mean, on average, you get 700% more or 7x the average rares you get.
If you have 100% IIR for a total IR of 200%, you get 1400% more or 14x as many rares as you would normally get.
Yes 14/6 is 2.3 normal. A single person running 100% IIQ and 100%IIR would have double quantity and double rarity giving them 4 normal. So its actually worse in a group but when you factor in that groups can kill 2-3 times faster than solo your make up for this.
Hoverboard is truly just a troll so I am going to start ignoring his comments until he starts presenting true discussion.
Stack MF, get lots of vendor trash. Have fun going back to town to vendor every two minutes, for the gain of a few alts/alcs (that I make up by clearing at 10x your speed).
Not my idea of fun. If it is yours, all power to you, I don't care.
I actually don't need lewtz at this point, just some currency to socket/link stuff I have. I am happy with what I have, and the drop rates GGG provide.
Actually by not explicitly including himself into his random 95%, he stated he know nothing of it himself.
This "chance" vs "more" means nothing when choosing between faster map runs and more loot-effective map runs is not fair, as an opportunity to run a map matters the most.
"
Herpy_Derpleson wrote:
Stack MF, get lots of vendor trash. Have fun going back to town to vendor every two minutes, for the gain of a few alts/alcs (that I make up by clearing at 10x your speed).
Not my idea of fun. If it is yours, all power to you, I don't care.
I actually don't need lewtz at this point, just some currency to socket/link stuff I have. I am happy with what I have, and the drop rates GGG provide.
You mean that was 2 months ago you last played your only character? Or do you prefer using your other secret account to play and this one to post your clever reasonings about the game?
The difference between an MF-stacked character and kill speed-oriented one is enormous at the moment. The former is drowning in drops, the latter - hardly ever sees them. Yes, while all the drops are mostly trash in both cases, the former still has far more chances to have a potent drop because no matter how fast the latter kills, he sees far less drops per unit time, let alone per unit map. But when you consider, that the number of completed maps counts and even actually far outweigh anything else (as they require orbs for even 'alch&go'ing that doesn't even work at higher levels), you will definitely realize MF is not so good at all, and adds absolutely nothing positive into the game as of right now - Path of Exile 0.11.1e.
While you have the point, that you need loot only up to a point, after which you have an adequately geared character, that can sacrifice his further chances to find an upgrade to go for more e-peen stats like kill speed etc, but what is the point in the game then? Seeing no further loot, you will get like 2-3 more levels, get incredibly bored, and leave the game for good. This is definitely not what I think this game deserves.
Playing solo I was able to vendor absolutely every non-white item in the whole map I was 'alch&go'ing via my 5-6 available map portals. That totaled me at about +7-8 alteration orbs per map - exactly what an alchemy orb is worth. This could actually be reasonable if only maps were sustaining, but they were not.
Unfortunately, right now the game loot drops are balanced around heavy stacked MF. While it may seem to be ok to swap MF for other in-game stats after you reached the certain gear floor depending on your chosen build, but what is the point in playing, when you yourself pretty much guarantee you will never find a good loot? That's why MF is not actually an option.
Actually by not explicitly including himself into his random 95%, he stated he know nothing of it himself.
This "chance" vs "more" means nothing when choosing between faster map runs and more loot-effective map runs is not fair, as an opportunity to run a map matters the most.
"
Herpy_Derpleson wrote:
Stack MF, get lots of vendor trash. Have fun going back to town to vendor every two minutes, for the gain of a few alts/alcs (that I make up by clearing at 10x your speed).
Not my idea of fun. If it is yours, all power to you, I don't care.
I actually don't need lewtz at this point, just some currency to socket/link stuff I have. I am happy with what I have, and the drop rates GGG provide.
You mean that was 2 months ago you last played your only character? Or do you prefer using your other secret account to play and this one to post your clever reasonings about the game?
The difference between an MF-stacked character and kill speed-oriented one is enormous at the moment. The former is drowning in drops, the latter - hardly ever sees them. Yes, while all the drops are mostly trash in both cases, the former still has far more chances to have a potent drop because no matter how fast the latter kills, he sees far less drops per unit time, let alone per unit map. But when you consider, that the number of completed maps counts and even actually far outweigh anything else (as they require orbs for even 'alch&go'ing that doesn't even work at higher levels), you will definitely realize MF is not so good at all, and adds absolutely nothing positive into the game as of right now - Path of Exile 0.11.1e.
While you have the point, that you need loot only up to a point, after which you have an adequately geared character, that can sacrifice his further chances to find an upgrade to go for more e-peen stats like kill speed etc, but what is the point in the game then? Seeing no further loot, you will get like 2-3 more levels, get incredibly bored, and leave the game for good. This is definitely not what I think this game deserves.
Playing solo I was able to vendor absolutely every non-white item in the whole map I was 'alch&go'ing via my 5-6 available map portals. That totaled me at about +7-8 alteration orbs per map - exactly what an alchemy orb is worth. This could actually be reasonable if only maps were sustaining, but they were not.
Unfortunately, right now the game loot drops are balanced around heavy stacked MF. While it may seem to be ok to swap MF for other in-game stats after you reached the certain gear floor depending on your chosen build, but what is the point in playing, when you yourself pretty much guarantee you will never find a good loot? That's why MF is not actually an option.
You are so divided from me on this issue.
You say that me building strong characters rather than MF is growing my ePeen? WTF? That's the complete opposite bro. Are you on crack? I'm not looting to make sales, I'm not trying to be the "big man". My enjoyment of this game is personal. Not you, or anyone else (other than GGG) can deny me of that.
On a fundamental level, I differ from most PoE players in opinion (mostly youths that are clueless).
I understand if D3 was your gateway into aRPG's, but this isn't the case for most of us.
Stop comparing PoE to D3, and start comparing it with some "real" aRPGs.
Personally, I was a big fan of Gauntlet in the 80's, which to me is far more like PoE than Rogue or whatever variant of dungeon crawler.
"player one needs food badly" /muffled 8 bit voices (anyone remember populous on MS?)
I continue to run without MF.
I continue to find epik lewtz.
What more can I say?
There is nothing to say to this other than your experience and mine varied widely. You have found chests full of epic loot and I can't find rags & scraps to progress my characters through the main story line without resorting to merchanting.
If they need to get rid of MF in order to balance the loot drops so a normal player can simply play the game and progress through the story then they should get rid of it. I don't think that's the problem at all however. I think the issue is in the number of permutations that a given drop might have and the varying priority of those affixes. Some affixes (like the ones which buff armor/es/evasion) are much, much higher priority than others. Yet the loot system treats them as all the same. That, in and of itself, makes the vast majority of rares vendor trash. Then, when you add in all the other attributes that must be right to make the piece usable the odds just go to ludicrous levels.
Of course my concerns are just about getting TO maps which is an inconceivable goal to me (sans trading). I can't really comment on the whole map economy. I've already written that off. I ran one map on my softcore guy. Saw that it was basically a super-high risk situation with no obvious payoff. Crap loot with insane difficulty. Perfect. It was immediately obvious that if I couldn't even afford to get TO maps then I surely couldn't afford to play them.
I don't trade. I don't group. My comments reflect that.
Just reroll dual spork like everyone else, including myself, has done or is doing. I'll be pissed if they ever change MF or spork now that I've heavily invested in it. I did pub parties on my way to finishing act 3 and getting level 70. At least 3 people in every group were dual spork. There were actually 6 sporkers a couple times. Path of Spork and I love it.
Actually by not explicitly including himself into his random 95%, he stated he know nothing of it himself.
This "chance" vs "more" means nothing when choosing between faster map runs and more loot-effective map runs is not fair, as an opportunity to run a map matters the most.
"
Herpy_Derpleson wrote:
Stack MF, get lots of vendor trash. Have fun going back to town to vendor every two minutes, for the gain of a few alts/alcs (that I make up by clearing at 10x your speed).
Not my idea of fun. If it is yours, all power to you, I don't care.
I actually don't need lewtz at this point, just some currency to socket/link stuff I have. I am happy with what I have, and the drop rates GGG provide.
You mean that was 2 months ago you last played your only character? Or do you prefer using your other secret account to play and this one to post your clever reasonings about the game?
The difference between an MF-stacked character and kill speed-oriented one is enormous at the moment. The former is drowning in drops, the latter - hardly ever sees them. Yes, while all the drops are mostly trash in both cases, the former still has far more chances to have a potent drop because no matter how fast the latter kills, he sees far less drops per unit time, let alone per unit map. But when you consider, that the number of completed maps counts and even actually far outweigh anything else (as they require orbs for even 'alch&go'ing that doesn't even work at higher levels), you will definitely realize MF is not so good at all, and adds absolutely nothing positive into the game as of right now - Path of Exile 0.11.1e.
While you have the point, that you need loot only up to a point, after which you have an adequately geared character, that can sacrifice his further chances to find an upgrade to go for more e-peen stats like kill speed etc, but what is the point in the game then? Seeing no further loot, you will get like 2-3 more levels, get incredibly bored, and leave the game for good. This is definitely not what I think this game deserves.
Playing solo I was able to vendor absolutely every non-white item in the whole map I was 'alch&go'ing via my 5-6 available map portals. That totaled me at about +7-8 alteration orbs per map - exactly what an alchemy orb is worth. This could actually be reasonable if only maps were sustaining, but they were not.
Unfortunately, right now the game loot drops are balanced around heavy stacked MF. While it may seem to be ok to swap MF for other in-game stats after you reached the certain gear floor depending on your chosen build, but what is the point in playing, when you yourself pretty much guarantee you will never find a good loot? That's why MF is not actually an option.
You are so divided from me on this issue.
You say that me building strong characters rather than MF is growing my ePeen? WTF? That's the complete opposite bro. Are you on crack? I'm not looting to make sales, I'm not trying to be the "big man". My enjoyment of this game is personal. Not you, or anyone else (other than GGG) can deny me of that.
On a fundamental level, I differ from most PoE players in opinion (mostly youths that are clueless).
I understand if D3 was your gateway into aRPG's, but this isn't the case for most of us.
Stop comparing PoE to D3, and start comparing it with some "real" aRPGs.
Personally, I was a big fan of Gauntlet in the 80's, which to me is far more like PoE than Rogue or whatever variant of dungeon crawler.
"player one needs food badly" /muffled 8 bit voices (anyone remember populous on MS?)
Your posts are so disconnected from the talking that really takes place in this thread, I can't even tell whether you try to say something very distant intentionally or you really don't realize what I was talking about. I didn't even mention D3 for several pages already. If you are interested, I personally started playing ARPGs from Diablo I, then Revenant, then Nox was by far my best RPG game for many years. I wasn't very fond of Diablo II at start as I waited for more than 2 full years for it, and I was really angry at the game for this. You can imagine how I really like D3 after waiting for more than 10 years for it.
But this is really nothing but an off-topic here. There were definitely good games around, there were certainly bad ones as well, but I have a strong belief right now, that Path of Exile is at least two heads above other games of the genre. And as this forum topic shows, I am not the only one concerned, that MF may somewhat hinder the game in the whole.
"
big_aug wrote:
Just reroll dual spork like everyone else, including myself, has done or is doing. I'll be pissed if they ever change MF or spork now that I've heavily invested in it. I did pub parties on my way to finishing act 3 and getting level 70. At least 3 people in every group were dual spork. There were actually 6 sporkers a couple times. Path of Spork and I love it.
Yes, being nerfed sucks ass big time, but having a huge passive skill tree full of seemingly interesting choices to only have several really viable builds? I don't get what are guys like Herpy or Hovergame trying to prove with all their arguments. Loving to play the game the way it is - is great, but definitely not at the expense of solo gameplay and overall builds diversity.
