Remove MF completely from game

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Bishop120 wrote:

Group MF is MULTIPLICATIVE as is MAP IIQ.
They've shown how a single person in a 6 man group can get 14 TIMES the normal loot to drop off monsters.

Again, this is a party problem and the big disparity between solo/party difficulty/rewards, make MF additive or something else accordingly.
And by the way, who are "they" and where/how did "they" "show" that?

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

I continue to run without MF.
I continue to find epik lewtz.

What more can I say?

Are you playing in a party that has no MF player for last hitting?

"

Bishop120 wrote:

This game has gear walls designed to hold people back with inferior gear such as the increase in damage people take, reduction to elemental/chaos resistance, increased monster HP/regeneration. All these things are supposed to hold people back with inferior gear. The problem with MF is that the drop system is tuned AROUND it. Its not tuned to keep pace with what a normal person might find just playing the game. Its tuned for to take into account people with high MF to the point that if you want to get decent gear on your own you have to have an MF set. That is the problem with MF. It unbalances the entire economy and dynamic of the game to heavily favor not normal builds that a person would use but heavily favors pure MF builds. Its like taking the game and saying that its better to play with level 20 gear than it is to play with level 60 because killing LESS is BETTER!

Group MF is MULTIPLICATIVE as is MAP IIQ. They've shown how a single person in a 6 man group can get 14 TIMES the normal loot to drop off monsters. 14 TIMES! Theres no way a single person can even come close to that. Not only can a group clean a map in a matter of a few minutes they get crap toons of loot to boot.

Again yall say it favors build diversity. If its diversity they try something other than MF and stick with it. Again your addicted to it. Its OP and you know it. You have only gotten where you are because of it and thats why you are afraid to loose it. You would have to try and play this game the right way and you wouldnt be anything special.

We need a system which is not balanced around it being a common stat. A system where MF from maps and unique items feels valuable and is in its self a unique attribute. In the same way that they say Unique Maps are not factored into the Map drop equation, MF needs to not be factored into the loot drop equation. The only way they can do that is to remove it as a common stat.

This shows a fundamental widely embraced misunderstanding about how the numbers interact. yes, group IIQ is multiplicative. But having the loots divided between 6 players is also essentially a mulitiplicative loss.


a full group nets +250% multiplicative IIQ, but the loot is split 6 ways- this means each player on average 350/6=58.3% as much loot as they would gain solo all other things being equal.

That last bit is the catch though- I am not arguing solo play is better for loot- it isn't. But the reason has nothing to do with the multiplicative stacking of group IIQ. The other factors of grouping just happen to make up for this 41.6% loss is loot per player. The pertinent advantages of grouping include:

1). Cost of maps is split, allowing much more profitable maps to be regularly played

2). Groups tend to average out the strengths and weaknesses of it's players, resulting in very few maps high IIQ maps with combinations of mods that make then undoable(a solo player simply can't run some combos of mods depending on their build). This also holds for particular types of monsters/bosses specific builds may find challenging.

3). Unless a player already has essentially perfect gear, groups tend to kill faster.

4). groups are safer- less time spent running away and playing it safe further contributes to faster clear speeds.






All that said, MF is another topic entirely. MF doesn't have to be removed I think- but it is too important at present. if balanced well, the advantages of having MF would be comparable to the increased killspeed one would have without it. Being that the current iteration MF is too efficient I'd love to see the following:

-Grant all players a passive "hidden" +15-20% IIQ & +30-40% IIR
-reduce all IIQ & IIR on items accross the board by maybe 15-20%(multiplicative)


The result would be simple: Drops would be comparable or a bit lower for players at very high IIQ & IIR would be comparable or slightly worse off then now, and builds that can't afford to squeeze in much IF would have substantially better drops.


The result would be that item find would become a less valuable stat(though still very significant in large quantities), creating less of a discrepancy between builds that need stats(and can't just stack MF) and those that don't.

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Bishop120 wrote:

"

Hovergame wrote:

Again, FOR FUCKING SAKE, if a build is OP, nerf it and STOP ASKING ABOUT A NERF THAT REMOVE ONE OF THE DIFFCULTY IN THE GAME.

MF is OP. We are asking to nerf it by removing it from the standard pool of play.

Resistances are OP, we need to (almost) max them before even thinking about anything else (INCLUDING MF). Nerf/remove them. HP/ES are OP, ....

"

They've shown how a single person in a 6 man group can get 14 TIMES the normal loot to drop off monsters. 14 TIMES!

Please show me :) Even in a group of 6 with a culli ng striker getting ALL the kills, with 100/400 and killing 2 times faster, we're at 2*4.5*4/6 = 6 times what a solo player gets. And we're talking about rares/uniques only, if we only look at currencies, he'll drop "only" 1.5 times more currencies. That's why I don't even understand the logic behind.

@iamstryker : please stop hiding your true motive : getting more loots, troll.

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Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

I continue to run without MF.
I continue to find epik lewtz.

What more can I say?

You can, for example, say the names of epic lewtz you find. Herpy, seriously, noone cares about Kaom's Signs and similar stuff you find.

"

Hovergame wrote:

Again, FOR FUCKING SAKE, if a build is OP, nerf it and STOP ASKING ABOUT A NERF THAT REMOVE ONE OF THE DIFFCULTY IN THE GAME.

There's something really wrong with either your caps lock or shift button this time. Take care!

Btw, desyncs are also an artificial "difficulty" in the game, would you also argue fixing it?

You are now begin to seriously contradict yourself. As far as I got you, You were against never ending QQ for nerfs to different builds and now you seem to advocate for it? Nerf sparkers - summoners on the way you say? No thanks, we are trying to identify and fix the root of the problem here.

As for removing resistances - it was covered a myriad of times already. Resistances are just bricks with which you form your character's build. In this sense, they are very logical to the ARPG genre. The loot - is actually a goal. Having a stat that directly helps you to get to the goal is easily the best and trumps any other choices, thus is mandatory and bad. This actually isn't that hard to understand.

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Hovergame wrote:

Resistances are OP, we need to (almost) max them before even thinking about anything else (INCLUDING MF). Nerf/remove them. HP/ES are OP, ....

Well lots of balancing has to be done in this game. Dual Totem is a joke. Melee is still so hard underpowerd than ranged. Some builds are plain to strong. So lets assume everything will be balanced 100% perfectly and giving up survivability as melee and going MF is the same as you would do as ranged /dual totem build:

Yes, then MF is a nice additional choice.

But I dont see the game getting to this point any soon. Removing MF in this casw would be a 100% effective fix, equaling shitlaods of builds.

But right now MF is just broken wich is in direct correlation with the unbalanced game, so MF itself becomes a flawed game mechanic.


Sidequestion: Does anyone know, why MF was removed from shields, armor and belts?

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Daefecator wrote:

"

Herpy_Derpleson wrote:

I continue to run without MF.
I continue to find epik lewtz.

What more can I say?

You can, for example, say the names of epic lewtz you find. Herpy, seriously, noone cares about Kaom's Signs and similar stuff you find.

Yes, I have several Kaom's Signs. I keep two (for if I'll ever need them) and give away the rest on global for free.

My Shav's however, I will keep. Just like most of my gear, I found, socketed and linked it myself.

I will not bow to your level by posting all my good gear, that is beneath me. I have awesome gears, all my IG friends know that, and drool over my "wealth".

I also lend my gears out. Need a bow? Here you go mate. Starting a new character? Borrow my Tabula Rasa.

Get on my level, you pathetic worm.

I MAIN SEARING BOND, YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH ME!!!

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Hovergame wrote:

@iamstryker : please stop hiding your true motive : getting more loots, troll.

Getting a bit tired of your BS

You making that accusation of me is no different than if I accused you of just wanting to protect magic find because you yourself use a stacked magic find build that you so desperately do NOT want to get nerfed.

But I wouldn't simply accuse you of that because I'm not a F****** A**H***.


Any build can stack enough resistances to do just fine. Thats not even close to what we are discussing here in regards to magic find being overpowered and limiting build options, especially due to certain builds being able to stack MF to the high heavens with out much consequence.


In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]

I will let everyone else in this thread be the judge as to which one of us is trolling.

Stack MF, get lots of vendor trash. Have fun going back to town to vendor every two minutes, for the gain of a few alts/alcs (that I make up by clearing at 10x your speed).

Not my idea of fun. If it is yours, all power to you, I don't care.

I actually don't need lewtz at this point, just some currency to socket/link stuff I have. I am happy with what I have, and the drop rates GGG provide.