Remove MF completely from game

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iamstryker wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

Now, you're spamming during more than 50 pages how MF kills build diversity. what's your build diversity ? the number of different builds you encounter ? Or the number of builds who can effectively level ? Let's take a bow user, they are basically down to 2 skills (LA or ROA) for packs and 2 (Frenzy or EH) for single target, and the trees are usualy very similar. Do you realise how this has nothing to do with MF, but about the gems themselves ? ROA + CE, LA + LMP + Chain ? Every single other bow skill is subpar and/or situationnal. It has nothing to do with MF in general.

I could be wrong but I am getting this feeling that you think any sub-optimal build isn't worth playing. Many people in this game enjoy playing fun and unique builds. My favorite was when I made my own block build that specializes in molten shell and tempest shield. Its not at all a super powerful/fast clearing build, but I still love it. There's no way in hell I'm going to gimp that build with enough magic find to make it at all close to the amount of loot that my magic find build dishes out.

Exact opposite. I play whatever I want while I don't give a rat's ass to what everybody else is playing. You don't want to take MF into account ? Fine, but deal with it and stop whining about that stat. I'm getting bored of that attitude.

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Hovergame wrote:

Spoiler

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iamstryker wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

Now, you're spamming during more than 50 pages how MF kills build diversity. what's your build diversity ? the number of different builds you encounter ? Or the number of builds who can effectively level ? Let's take a bow user, they are basically down to 2 skills (LA or ROA) for packs and 2 (Frenzy or EH) for single target, and the trees are usualy very similar. Do you realise how this has nothing to do with MF, but about the gems themselves ? ROA + CE, LA + LMP + Chain ? Every single other bow skill is subpar and/or situationnal. It has nothing to do with MF in general.

I could be wrong but I am getting this feeling that you think any sub-optimal build isn't worth playing. Many people in this game enjoy playing fun and unique builds. My favorite was when I made my own block build that specializes in molten shell and tempest shield. Its not at all a super powerful/fast clearing build, but I still love it. There's no way in hell I'm going to gimp that build with enough magic find to make it at all close to the amount of loot that my magic find build dishes out.

Exact opposite. I play whatever I want while I don't give a rat's ass to what everybody else is playing. You don't want to take MF into account ? Fine, but deal with it and stop whining about that stat. I'm getting bored of that attitude.

Exactly. Obviously we care about what you say and will deal with it. Don't want to take sub-optimal builds into account? Fine, but stop whining about others voicing concerns and treating your own opinion as somehow superior. It's long ago we got used to this attitude of yours, it's not that cool anymore.

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Destruktor wrote:

Wow 76 pages, I had no idea IIQ/IIR was such a hotly debated topic in the community.

I'm with you. I've been reading this thread since it started (and since I have strong issues with the loot system as it is). But I just can't get all that excited about MF. Yup, I have two sets of gear.... one for MF and the other for advancement. If I could actually advance I'd undoubtedly have a MF character entirely designed to feed whatever other loonie builds I wanted to make... at least that's how I did it in D2.

The closest I've come to is that if they removed MF entirely then they wouldn't need to tune around it. I don't really see that as changing my own personal problems. I don't really see how any amount of IIR/IIQ would change the fact that every single item that drops is crap.

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Hovergame wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

Now, you're spamming during more than 50 pages how MF kills build diversity. what's your build diversity ? the number of different builds you encounter ? Or the number of builds who can effectively level ? Let's take a bow user, they are basically down to 2 skills (LA or ROA) for packs and 2 (Frenzy or EH) for single target, and the trees are usualy very similar. Do you realise how this has nothing to do with MF, but about the gems themselves ? ROA + CE, LA + LMP + Chain ? Every single other bow skill is subpar and/or situationnal. It has nothing to do with MF in general.

I could be wrong but I am getting this feeling that you think any sub-optimal build isn't worth playing. Many people in this game enjoy playing fun and unique builds. My favorite was when I made my own block build that specializes in molten shell and tempest shield. Its not at all a super powerful/fast clearing build, but I still love it. There's no way in hell I'm going to gimp that build with enough magic find to make it at all close to the amount of loot that my magic find build dishes out.

Exact opposite. I play whatever I want while I don't give a rat's ass to what everybody else is playing. You don't want to take MF into account ? Fine, but deal with it and stop whining about that stat. I'm getting bored of that attitude.

Apparently you were trying to argue that skills themselves limit build diversity because some are more popular/powerful than others. To some extent that is true. Gems are going to need to be balanced for a long time to achieve that.

How does that prove that magic find isn't also an issue? Why do gems need to be balanced but not magic find? I don't remember who but some one said earlier that the magic find builds themselves need to be nerfed. If thats possible then I'm for it but I don't think GGG will be able to do that. I think there will always be one or two mega good magic find builds. Better to just deal with magic find itself.

I'm whining? The only one in here I argue with is you and that's not because I'm trying to prove I'm right, its because of your holyier than thou attitude of superiority. Take your own advice and quit trolling everyone and whining about your opinion.

This game has gear walls designed to hold people back with inferior gear such as the increase in damage people take, reduction to elemental/chaos resistance, increased monster HP/regeneration. All these things are supposed to hold people back with inferior gear. The problem with MF is that the drop system is tuned AROUND it. Its not tuned to keep pace with what a normal person might find just playing the game. Its tuned for to take into account people with high MF to the point that if you want to get decent gear on your own you have to have an MF set. That is the problem with MF. It unbalances the entire economy and dynamic of the game to heavily favor not normal builds that a person would use but heavily favors pure MF builds. Its like taking the game and saying that its better to play with level 20 gear than it is to play with level 60 because killing LESS is BETTER!

Group MF is MULTIPLICATIVE as is MAP IIQ. They've shown how a single person in a 6 man group can get 14 TIMES the normal loot to drop off monsters. 14 TIMES! Theres no way a single person can even come close to that. Not only can a group clean a map in a matter of a few minutes they get crap toons of loot to boot.

Again yall say it favors build diversity. If its diversity they try something other than MF and stick with it. Again your addicted to it. Its OP and you know it. You have only gotten where you are because of it and thats why you are afraid to loose it. You would have to try and play this game the right way and you wouldnt be anything special.

We need a system which is not balanced around it being a common stat. A system where MF from maps and unique items feels valuable and is in its self a unique attribute. In the same way that they say Unique Maps are not factored into the Map drop equation, MF needs to not be factored into the loot drop equation. The only way they can do that is to remove it as a common stat.

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1988288 wrote:

To the OP(I guess):
Players, who're playing for 8+ hours a day, would still have more loot than most other players, so what's next topic OP will create? - "Add a time-limitation that a player can play per-day/week/month".

WTF, that is incredibly retarded and I have absolutely NO idea, how you could even think about that being my intention.....ffs. rly? This discussion is not about "buhuuu i want more loot".
Ffs. In my op they could leave the drop rates like they are now and just remove mf. Although this would be retarded with the droprates being designed around mf, I would accept it, because Mf just sucks.

(I am still honestly confused how you could "read" this out of my starting post)



And I KNEW someone would come up with the following comparison

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Remove MF? wy then not remove resistances

Answer: All builds are affected by it (now plz come up with the stupid arguments, that for some builds its easier to stack resistances).
But more important: That is part of the challenge. Kill shit and survive. And what am I just thinking? I should go full mf summoner/dualsparker, or I could turn my actuall char again in MF, but ffs....then I can rly just lvl up a dual sparker and mf effectively.

Again, FOR FUCKING SAKE, if a build is OP, nerf it and STOP ASKING ABOUT A NERF THAT REMOVE ONE OF THE DIFFCULTY IN THE GAME.

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Hovergame wrote:

Again, FOR FUCKING SAKE, if a build is OP, nerf it and STOP ASKING ABOUT A NERF THAT REMOVE ONE OF THE DIFFCULTY IN THE GAME.

MF is OP. We are asking to nerf it by removing it from the standard pool of play.

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WUlf1337 wrote:

The only problem atm moment is, that you really HAVE to go into this direction, unless you want to spent ages to make any progress.

That is your opinion. I disagree. I see MF as pointless, just as I see crafting and farming as pointless. It isn't the drop rates that is the problem. It's the combinatorial explosion of their complex system which virtually ensures that WHATEVER drops it's going to be junk for you.

To be fair, I don't participate in "the economy" so random shards are equally worthless to me. Yeah yeah, I've done a zillion runs through Solaris 3 and slaughtered an untold number of unique curtains and that statue thingie when I felt like it. What I got for my trouble was shards. That was WITH MF. So honestly, taking my MF gear off only hurts because it indicates I've given up totally.

If they removed MF and adjusted all drop rates to be 400/200 IIR/IIQ I don't really see how that'd change anything. What I need is one single drop that was actually useful not a hundred billion worthless pieces of garbage.

I continue to run without MF.
I continue to find epik lewtz.

What more can I say?