Remove MF completely from game

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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mobutu wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

...maps are loots.

Sure, they are loot, but also sure, they aren't affected in any way by IIQ/IIR.
Map drops are immune to MF.

Real maps = dropped maps + currency

Currency is very much effected by IIQ/IIR.

Plus the whole "getting stuff to trade for other people's maps" thing.

Thus, maps are very much not immune to MF.

The currency that you speak of only drops inside of an EXISTING map, that had to drop somewhere.
And that drop was not affected at all by MF.

I gave a wonderful analogy with Chaos Resistance. Plese feel free to find a difference. You can also make the analogy with every resistance, and you don't whine about having to max your resistance.

PS If yu spent half an exalt on each map you get, you're doing it wrong and don't try to jutify with a "I'm forced to do so !".

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Hovergame wrote:

I gave a wonderful analogy with Chaos Resistance. Plese feel free to find a difference. You can also make the analogy with every resistance, and you don't whine about having to max your resistance.

PS If yu spent half an exalt on each map you get, you're doing it wrong and don't try to jutify with a "I'm forced to do so !".

dude, your highest char is 81. you dont have an clue about substaining high maps.

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HeroOfExile wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

I gave a wonderful analogy with Chaos Resistance. Plese feel free to find a difference. You can also make the analogy with every resistance, and you don't whine about having to max your resistance.

PS If yu spent half an exalt on each map you get, you're doing it wrong and don't try to jutify with a "I'm forced to do so !".

dude, your highest char is 81. you dont have an clue about substaining high maps.

Dude, you're doing wrong, don't try to explain why you think you're right. Herpy told you how to sustain them. And, even if you'd need some MF to sustain your maps at high levels, what's the difference with havng to max your resists ?

Just popping in for a second to say that I don't currently follow the idea that having to max resistances is on par with how magic find dominates the game and funnels people into a few builds. I'll think more about it and check back later on in the day but I really don't see a big problem with resistances as opposed to magic find.

Good night.

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Hovergame wrote:

Spoiler

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HeroOfExile wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

I gave a wonderful analogy with Chaos Resistance. Plese feel free to find a difference. You can also make the analogy with every resistance, and you don't whine about having to max your resistance.

PS If yu spent half an exalt on each map you get, you're doing it wrong and don't try to jutify with a "I'm forced to do so !".

dude, your highest char is 81. you dont have an clue about substaining high maps.

Dude, you're doing wrong, don't try to explain why you think you're right. Herpy told you how to sustain them. And, even if you'd need some MF to sustain your maps at high levels, what's the difference with havng to max your resists ?

Actually, what Herpy told was just common sense. Neither he nor you personally have enough actual data running such 'alch&go' strategy. Herpy's basic dismissal for lacking such experience was that "game is not currently intended to be played for 80+ level characters". I am really not that interested in hearing that you are eager to play new leagues and stuff, as it took me slightly less than 3 weeks to get to 87, and I was not even "no-life"ing the game, because just like you, I have 5/8 daily job (and had it at that time as well). You could already have had such high level character if you wanted to, as it's already more than a month since these leagues have started. Anyways, I won't even try to claim that I have that much experience, because I talked to players who "no-life"d the game far more than me. But to put it simple - 'alch&go' strategy simply doesn't work unless you try to sustain level 68-69 maps, or level 69-71 maps while having character level lower than 82. First part of this sentence is a some sort of consensus that everyone high level enough I talked to just takes as granted. The second part was basically my personal opinion until I heard the exact same phrase but coming from other player whom we basically ran only 6-7 maps together with. We were in the group of ckay27, who stated his own opinion earlier in this thread.

And by the way, "I am forced to do so !" is very close to "I want more loot !". It is absolutely not me, who has trouble playing an MF character. I am perfectly fine with the necessity to play MF character only, if the overall mechanic is not somehow fixed until game release. Of course, put it as you see it, I want loot and I am forced to do MF for that. Unfortunately, it changes nothing.

As I (and you, I suppose) are still in game beta, I just humbly voice the concern, that will severely limit the selection of viable builds I will actively be playing Path of Exile after the game is released. And as it turns out, I am not the only one concerned.

P.s.: I personally almost never rerolled my maps via chaos orbs. I only chaos'ed a map 5 or 6 times and no more than 2-3 chaoses per map every time. Turns out exactly this was my mistake that led to my inability to sustain maps. I also started to actively experience problems with even sustaining level 68-69 maps when I was level 87 via 'alch&go'.

P.p.s.: Difference between MF and necessity to cap out resists was already covered by me personally somewhere around page 30-50 earlier in this thread, and I addressed that in my previous post here. And how can you be so sure your analogy was "wonderful"? I suppose you meant to say your usual "clueless" in this case as well. But if you really want me to reiterate on the subject, I will try to explain myself better.

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Hovergame wrote:

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HeroOfExile wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

I gave a wonderful analogy with Chaos Resistance. Plese feel free to find a difference. You can also make the analogy with every resistance, and you don't whine about having to max your resistance.

PS If yu spent half an exalt on each map you get, you're doing it wrong and don't try to jutify with a "I'm forced to do so !".

dude, your highest char is 81. you dont have an clue about substaining high maps.

Dude, you're doing wrong, don't try to explain why you think you're right. Herpy told you how to sustain them. And, even if you'd need some MF to sustain your maps at high levels, what's the difference with havng to max your resists ?

LOL

This guy Hovergame is hilarious.

I want to see how he sustains 72+ maps.

Rolling a good maze-able map takes anywhere from 1 to 30 chaos orbs which is a bit over half an exalt.

Maze as a modifier is the reason why chaos orbs are not worthless but it is still incredibly bad design for half of all high level maps to need maze + high q or pack size or magic mobs in order to be worth running. Quantity needs to be twice or thrice as effectual for increasing the odds of map drops.

As for the topic, i find magic find for the most part worthless. quantity bonus for 77 maps on other hand can be very lucrative due to 78-79 whites selling for a decent amount of chaos orbs.

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Daefecator wrote:

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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big_aug wrote:

Map drops need adjusted. Something like tripling the drop rate for maps that are less than the current maps level.

...and it would change nothing for the fact that the MF-stacker would still get more 'valuables' that can be used or transformed into currencies, and the less-MF players would still complain their jealousy against them.

While map drops are actually another topic that won't fix or be fixed via MF, you are absolutely wrong in your opinion about simply being jealous to higher-MF players.

Explanations using Hovergame style

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Hovergame wrote:

And again, please, get a clue about what you're talking about before posting.

It's complete nonsense to post arguments like "incompetence of play without MF" etc. You both seem to imply everyone who chooses anything else instead of MF simply needs to learn to play. This is, in fact, exactly what I was writing about myself. After you get some experience with the game, you realize that MF is pretty much mandatory, finding yourself pretty much obliged to stack Magic Find as high as possible to be even able to continue playing.

I see a trend in this topic of dismissing arguments different people make simply by saying they want more loot and envy those who really knows how to play.

While you will definitely continue using this artificial flawed deduction as a proper dismissal, Magic Find is pretty mandatory and is forced down the throat of everyone. And while we can try to compare it with another statistics like say, Fire/Cold/Lighthing Resist, that are also somehow forced to you, still you are still able to play the game with non-capped resistances. Having main game drive and hook aka loot system to compete with other game stats is really cheap and meaningless. It doesn't give you any options. Selecting between MF and other in-game choices is absolutely like in Tetris choosing between increased chance to spawn line figures and pretty much anything else. It actually limits your choices, as no matter how good (or bad) they are - they do not matter at all, as the winner is predetermined. So it's actually either Hovergame style reflected onto your own loot-envy dismissal posts either this very option as well. How clu... Oh, really?

The issue is maps. If you didn't spend currency on maps, then how much loot/currency you find is optional. You could choose a faster kill speed, safety/defense, stack mass MF, or a balance between them. It is perfectly fine for people to stack MF and get more loot. They are giving up something to do it. The system falls apart because you have to spend currency on maps to level and progress past a certain point.

And yes, it would be a choice. Some people prefer to get less loot and never die (especially HC characters). Some prefer to push the envelope in terms of DPS. Some people would rather farm the easiest content that can drop the items they want with as much MF as possible. All are valid. The only reason MF feels forced now is because we are constantly being drained through maps.

I'm always aazed by people :)

In this game, before even thinking about loots, before even thining about DPS, we need to increase our survivability to a point where the vast majority of our tree and gear is only about survivability.

Do you even understand how survivability >>>>>>>>>>>> all in this game, by several magnitudes ? You seem to be ok with this, but not with MF, why ? I don't get it, you accept to lose more than 50% of your DPS to be able to survive but you don't accept to lose some survivability/DPS to get more loots. And please, don't come again with the sporkers, one build being OP doesn't require a change that will affect the majority of the playerbase to be fixed.

Now, you're spamming during more than 50 pages how MF kills build diversity. what's your build diversity ? the number of different builds you encounter ? Or the number of builds who can effectively level ? Let's take a bow user, they are basically down to 2 skills (LA or ROA) for packs and 2 (Frenzy or EH) for single target, and the trees are usualy very similar. Do you realise how this has nothing to do with MF, but about the gems themselves ? ROA + CE, LA + LMP + Chain ? Every single other bow skill is subpar and/or situationnal. It has nothing to do with MF in general.

And I still don't get why you cannot put some MF on your gear. Last time I checked, MF affixes are in competition with resistances, Health/ES and damage. What prevent you of dropping some damage/resistance and add some MF on your gear ? You might die or kill too slow ? Then MF is not so unbalanced, right ? One build can do it without downside ? Nerf that build, and, again, don't whine about removing a bit of complexity in the game.

You're basically saying that every build shouldn't have any downside. Sorry, I cannot accept that.

Oh, and about the mapping system, GGG created this crappy system with everything in hands. They said that you shouldn't be able to sustain high level maps without any downside, they wanted to create an economy around the maps.