Remove MF completely from game

I just posted an idea on how they could rework mf mechanics here:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/460889


Come to insult me!

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Hovergame wrote:

@iamstryker : I don't care of what a troll like you can say. Goodbye.

I actually listen to what people say instead of sticking my own assumptions into their mouths so your opinion of me means absolutely nothing. I also don't sit in this thread attacking every person that disagrees with me.

Nerfing magic find would hurt pure Magic Find builds the most which is the entire point. This would encourage people to play other things than pure MF, that promotes diversity.

Scrotie thinks that MF should be nerfed/rebalanced, why haven't you attacked him yet with your assumptions?

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Hovergame wrote:

Build A is the highest DPS buid.
Build B is the highest MF build with a decent killspeed.

Build A has crappy loots and good XP.
Build B has good loots and crappy XP.

I.E A > B for XP, B > A for loots. The question is : how many XP/loots do you accept to lose to gain more loots/XP ?

Except maps are needed to get more endgame XP, and maps are loots. Which means in fact Build A has crappy loots and crappy XP, and build B has good loots and good XP.

But even if it weren't for the map system, I'd disagree with this. Regardless of how the endgame is done, it's always loot-driven, not XP-driven. Every ARPG ever made relies on randomized drop rates to enlongate end-game content, rather than using non-random progression, and PoE is no exception; upgrading your loot has far more endgame relevance than gaining levels, except for e-peen like Havoc's first to 100. As such, the proper calculation — I won't really say choice, because there's only one right answer — is to use any MF mods available once you hit endgame and pump out loot generation as much as possible. The map system's not the real culprit here, because we'd be doing the same behaviors anyway for optimization reasons; all maps do is enforce that optimization, preventing you from playing suboptimally.

It's boring, it's predictable, it's something that was wrong with Diablo 2, and it's something we should fix here.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

Build A is the highest DPS buid.
Build B is the highest MF build with a decent killspeed.

Build A has crappy loots and good XP.
Build B has good loots and crappy XP.

I.E A > B for XP, B > A for loots. The question is : how many XP/loots do you accept to lose to gain more loots/XP ?

Except maps are needed to get more endgame XP, and maps are loots. Which means in fact Build A has crappy loots and crappy XP, and build B has good loots and good XP.

But even if it weren't for the map system, I'd disagree with this. Regardless of how the endgame is done, it's always loot-driven, not XP-driven. Every ARPG ever made relies on randomized drop rates to enlongate end-game content, rather than using non-random progression, and PoE is no exception; upgrading your loot has far more endgame relevance than gaining levels, except for e-peen like Havoc's first to 100. As such, the proper calculation — I won't really say choice, because there's only one right answer — is to use any MF mods available once you hit endgame and pump out loot generation as much as possible. The map system's not the real culprit here, because we'd be doing the same behaviors anyway for optimization reasons; all maps do is enforce that optimization, preventing you from playing suboptimally.

It's boring, it's predictable, it's something that was wrong with Diablo 2, and it's something we should fix here.

The map system is the culprit because it drains your resources like nothing else in the game. I'd be perfectly fine with not finding jack shit most of the time if I could happily run maps and save up what currency I do have over time while gaining levels.

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big_aug wrote:

The map system is the culprit because it drains your resources like nothing else in the game. I'd be perfectly fine with not finding jack shit most of the time if I could happily run maps and save up what currency I do have over time while gaining levels.

Wouldn't you say though that the map system itself is to blame on that particular issue and NOT the magic find on the map? People only feel compelled to pump currency into maps because their scared of running out of the maps that they need to level.

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iamstryker wrote:

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big_aug wrote:

The map system is the culprit because it drains your resources like nothing else in the game. I'd be perfectly fine with not finding jack shit most of the time if I could happily run maps and save up what currency I do have over time while gaining levels.

Wouldn't you say though that the map system itself is to blame on that particular issue and NOT the magic find on the map? People only feel compelled to pump currency into maps because their scared of running out of the maps that they need to level.

I consider that to be the map system. Map drops themselves aren't affected by iiq on gear. If we weren't dependent upon currency to roll maps to get maps, there wouldn't be a problem. Map drops need adjusted. Something like tripling the drop rate for maps that are less than the current maps level. That would allow you to combine them up or run them for higher maps without spending the currency you have to spend now. Something needs to change.

Edit: I misread. Yes, I think the entire problem is the map system. If it weren't for the current system, MF wouldn't be nearly as important for maintaining a map pool. It would become a choice between kill speed/safety and finding items which is the way it should be.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

...maps are loots.

Sure, they are loot, but also sure, they aren't affected in any way by IIQ/IIR.
Map drops are immune to MF.

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mobutu wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

...maps are loots.

Sure, they are loot, but also sure, they aren't affected in any way by IIQ/IIR.
Map drops are immune to MF.

Real maps = dropped maps + currency

Currency is very much effected by IIQ/IIR.

Plus the whole "getting stuff to trade for other people's maps" thing.

Thus, maps are very much not immune to MF.

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big_aug wrote:

Map drops need adjusted. Something like tripling the drop rate for maps that are less than the current maps level.

...and it would change nothing for the fact that the MF-stacker would still get more 'valuables' that can be used or transformed into currencies, and the less-MF players would still complain their jealousy against them.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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big_aug wrote:

Map drops need adjusted. Something like tripling the drop rate for maps that are less than the current maps level.

...and it would change nothing for the fact that the MF-stacker would still get more 'valuables' that can be used or transformed into currencies, and the less-MF players would still complain their jealousy against them.

While map drops are actually another topic that won't fix or be fixed via MF, you are absolutely wrong in your opinion about simply being jealous to higher-MF players. It's complete nonsense to post arguments like "incompetence of play without MF" etc. You both seem to imply everyone who chooses anything else instead of MF simply needs to learn to play. This is, in fact, exactly what I was writing about myself. After you get some experience with the game, you realize that MF is pretty much mandatory, finding yourself pretty much obliged to stack Magic Find as high as possible to be even able to continue playing.

I see a trend in this topic of dismissing arguments different people make simply by saying they want more loot and envy those who really knows how to play.

While you will definitely continue using this artificial flawed deduction as a proper dismissal, Magic Find is pretty mandatory and is forced down the throat of everyone. And while we can try to compare it with another statistics like say, Fire/Cold/Lighthing Resist, that are also somehow forced to you, still you are still able to play the game with non-capped resistances. Having main game drive and hook aka loot system to compete with other game stats is really cheap and meaningless. It doesn't give you any options. Selecting between MF and other in-game choices is absolutely like in Tetris choosing between increased chance to spawn line figures and pretty much anything else. It actually limits your choices, as no matter how good (or bad) they are - they do not matter at all, as the winner is predetermined. So it's actually either Hovergame style reflected onto your own loot-envy dismissal posts either this very option as well. How clu... Oh, really?