Remove MF completely from game

It is high item rarity that we need combined with high item quantity together with map quality/quantity bonuses. One will need higher chances of seeing better loot on top of just more loot to have more unique maps after the patch.

Before this change, I was under heavy impression that only white maps that magic and rare maps (blue and yellow ones) were still pretty much affected by MF. And only white ones that are currently M2M restricted obeyed specific map drop rules - that do not count your character's IIQ and IIR stats and party quantity bonus.

Unique maps (orange ones) are more of an exception, as these can not be viewed strictly as just maps because they are really fun extra game content. While I don't like Magic Find, as I don't think it helps anything to have MF affixes on blue/yellow items, but overall, if we are to have MF to stay (at least for now), it is definitely cool it helps obtaining unique items, be it maps or equippable loot.

I feel this change is aimed to separate Magic Find from Map Drops/Sustainability. This could very well be a first step to solve the whole MF situation. Unlinking the problematic part from other logic before fixing - seems very logical to me. Anyways I believe in GGG, and almost sure they will fix everything provided they have time.

I have rerolled a dual totem sporker just to farm docks to provide my higher lvl character with currency for maps. At least five other individuals on my friends list who are 80+ doing 70+ maps have done or are in the process of doing the exact same thing. Lvl 80+ characters rerolling to farm areas 10+ levels below what they are currently doing. The map system is broken. Fix maps and MF wouldn't matter nearly as much.

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big_aug wrote:

Fix maps and MF wouldn't matter nearly as much.

Also vice versa.

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HeavyMetalGear wrote:

I wonder why one of GGG's Members used an Orb of Regret on their post here?

That is the question . . .

Pretty much yes. One of the devs (won't tell who) responded in the first few pages, stating his personal opinion (with disclaimer) about what he thinks of MF. There was nothing controversial about it, but he or someone else at GGG probably decided it was better to just remove the post since personal opinions in yellow posts can lead to problems...

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Pr0p4g4nd4p4nd4 wrote:

i love this game! but i really like playing solo or with only one friend. and i'm always into figuring out new niche builds that can succeed in maps.

removing mf would definitely help making different builds more attractive =)

PoE without MF would force you into playing cookie-cutter build due to killspeed > more slain units > more item drop > something good to drop.

Though it's RNG based still, but I like that you can have some impact on RNG with having some MF.

AoE builds, for instance Discharge clearing whole screen in one shot, would dominate this game even more.

Such argument won't stand a ground if you apply bit of logic to it.


To the OP(I guess):
Players, who're playing for 8+ hours a day, would still have more loot than most other players, so what's next topic OP will create? - "Add a time-limitation that a player can play per-day/week/month".

I don't see what exactly (except promoting people to buy orbs/items for real money) removal of MF would accomplish. The problem with "people with MF gets more lootz!" would shift into "people with more spare time gets more lootz!".

I don't mind you complaining, but suggestion of how to balance it out, or what else could take place in MF wouldn't hurt.

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1988288 wrote:

"

Pr0p4g4nd4p4nd4 wrote:

i love this game! but i really like playing solo or with only one friend. and i'm always into figuring out new niche builds that can succeed in maps.

removing mf would definitely help making different builds more attractive =)

PoE without MF would force you into playing cookie-cutter build due to killspeed > more slain units > more item drop > something good to drop.

Though it's RNG based still, but I like that you can have some impact on RNG with having some MF.

AoE builds, for instance Discharge clearing whole screen in one shot, would dominate this game even more.

Such argument won't stand a ground if you apply bit of logic to it.


To the OP(I guess):
Players, who're playing for 8+ hours a day, would still have more loot than most other players, so what's next topic OP will create? - "Add a time-limitation that a player can play per-day/week/month".

I don't see what exactly (except promoting people to buy orbs/items for real money) removal of MF would accomplish. The problem with "people with MF gets more lootz!" would shift into "people with more spare time gets more lootz!".

I don't mind you complaining, but suggestion of how to balance it out, or what else could take place in MF wouldn't hurt.

It is already cookie-cutter.

Parties have 5 people who ignore any mf and 1 dedicated person with max MF and culling strike to get all last hits.

Removing MF would not make it any more cookie cutter.

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mazul wrote:

It is already cookie-cutter.

"It"?

"

Parties have 5 people who ignore any mf and 1 dedicated person with max MF and culling strike to get all last hits.

What's the problem with it? 6 people share loot.

"

Removing MF would not make it any more cookie cutter.

For solo play builds would be rather limited still, if you want to look from efficiency point. It's not MF limiting builds, but builds themselves.

MF is providing drops. What will provide drops if MF is removed? The answer is obvious - heavy AoE/killspeed.

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1988288 wrote:

"

mazul wrote:

It is already cookie-cutter.

"It"?

"

Parties have 5 people who ignore any mf and 1 dedicated person with max MF and culling strike to get all last hits.

What's the problem with it? 6 people share loot.

"

Removing MF would not make it any more cookie cutter.

For solo play builds would be rather limited still, if you want to look from efficiency point. It's not MF limiting builds, but builds themselves.

MF is providing drops. What will provide drops if MF is removed? The answer is obvious - heavy AoE/killspeed.

By "it" I refer to the most efficient strategy, it is a cookie-cutter strategy.


This game was mainly designed around group play. This is why solo players will never be able to consistently do high level maps without RMT, massive trading or insane luck.

Sure for solo play, MF provides variation. If the focus of the game was solo play, I would actually care about it. Unfortunely it isn't the focus, group play is.

As for the problem a cookie-cutter strategy being optimal for party play: it lowers variation and I prefer diversity. It is for this reason, that I prefer that the MF bonus affecting the drops a mob yields to be a weighted avarage depending on which people did how much damage, rahter than just be exclusively based on the person who made the last hit.

The game was designed around solo play.
ggg said it in the looting thread or something.

The problem is that the current method of additive damage rather than multiplicative damage mods means that it will always be more beneficial in this game to stack IIQ/IIR to get items for trading and straight up currency. With only 100 of both IIQ and IIR you have a 400% drop rate increase of rare items and double currency. Thats 4 times base items to either be traded or turned into vendor currency. Considering how little every item slot other than weapons contribute to actual damage and how easy it is to stack it with a few damage or survival mods on items it will always be THE most important factor in getting drops in this game. Once you include that staying within 2 levels of a zone and dieing causes you to loose XP its very easy to get a farming character stacked with IIQ/IIR and farm the bejezus out of a zone. Its easy to OP a low level toon and then give them say 2 Advarius Rings, Perandus Cloth Belt, Goldwyrm Boots and/or other similar farming items and just farm. You will EASILY farm more in 1-2 hours than a normal player without stacking MF could farm in a WEEK. This is evident by every high level player freely ADMITTING that that is what they do to progress in this game. Its practically mandatory to either spend hours farming currency to trade for gear or hours playing the trade game to get anything. There is no incentive to actually play the game as it was meant to. You wont get high level maps, you wont get the gear, and you wont progress in this game WITHOUT STACKING MF.

All the talk about how removing MF would push people into a cookie cutter fastest kill build are already using the cookie cutter build. Yall are addicted to your uber powerful MF build. Removing MF might actually ADD to the build diversity as people would actually look for more builds. As to which is the best at killing people are always flowing through their FotM.. Summoners, Bow Marauders/Templars, Crit FP, and the new one Endurance Crit Discharge+Searing Touch.

To show how simple it is to reach 100IIQ/IIR just take 2 Andvarius Rings into a 90/100 Rare IIQ Map. Its not that hard. To make matters worse you can easily go OVER 100 IIQ/IIR for even more incredible drop rates.

This leaves us three things...

1.) Nerf MF... remove it from normal play all together as an affix except on Maps and Unique items.

2.) Cap MF and make it equally available to everyone.. easiest idea would be to add it to items in the same way as quality is. New items to upgrade the IIQ/IIR of your items.

3.) Balance IIQ and IIR with relevant trade offs. +1 IIQ == -1 IIR. People would now have to pick which they want.