Remove MF completely from game

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iamstryker wrote:

Yup. Every single player who doesn't like magic find in its current form just wants more free loot.

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Hovergame wrote:

Exactly.

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Hovergame wrote:

Dod I say EVERYBODY ? No, I didn't.

Uh, now I'm confused. You appear to be contradicting yourself. I thought that you had more confidence in your psychic powers that that.

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Daefecator wrote:

It is just amusing that you ignore almost everything to continue dismissing points.

You're kidding, right? I've been pulling out your main, bolded and bulleted points and telling you why they're wrong. Your other points are different iterations of complaints about RNG and fairness between classes. I won't address those, because I don't think RNG should be limited and I don't believe that complete balance is desirable. That's subjective, however, and could be argued until blue in the face. My issue is when you state things as truths that are not.

You've actually ignored the bigger points I've brought up, such as:


1) Build diversity is not helped by nerfind magic find. It only shifts the advantage to characters with the fastest clear speed. In fact, the trade-off between survivability, DPS, and MF in itself creates a wider range of options for builds.
2) Removing desirable mods on gear makes the game easier, leads to repetitive and less interesting loot, and makes build creation simpler and less challenging.
3) Magic Find already has diminishing returns. While exact numbers are not available, this means moderate magic find characters may not be far behind those with much higher.

I'd also like to see an example of one of these builds that is incapable of utilizing magic find.

I play melee hardcore and always swap weapon to with quantity and rarity to finish rares/bosses, and its much more loot.
But i cant do it on Hardest bosses/rares, and drop from them totaly sucks, which hurting alot.
So my situatios its less risk more gain and i think its broken.

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iamstryker wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Yup. Every single player who doesn't like magic find in its current form just wants more free loot.

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Hovergame wrote:

Exactly.

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Hovergame wrote:

Dod I say EVERYBODY ? No, I didn't.

Uh, now I'm confused. You appear to be contradicting yourself. I thought that you had more confidence in your psychic powers that that.

Argumentum ad hominem, this just shows how you're limited in our points now.
And, just for your information, there is a difference between EVERY SINGLE PLAYER WHO <insert condition here> and EVERYBODY. But ok, I'd change a little my sentence : every single player who wants MF removed just want more loot. Happy now ?

@jcmjx : Oh lord, you asked the wrong question ! They'll show you a random broken build and argue about THAT build is inferior to a given high en build. I said exactly what you posted 10-20 pages ago, but he just ignored everything and keep saying that we ignore him.

Kindergarten. do your flamewars via PM and stop cursing this thread. thx.

Why on Earth is this thread still alive?

edit: suppose I should say "why in Wraeclast"...however

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Hovergame wrote:

every single player who wants MF removed just want more loot. Happy now ?

If I were you I would be embarrassed for having such a silly position on the subject.

My current position is that MF is either removed or given diminishing returns, with NO rebalance of drops after that.

So how the hell do I only want MF nerfed so that I can get more drops if what I am asking for would give everyone LESS drops across the board?

Realize your wrong yet?

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jcmjx wrote:

1) Build diversity is not helped by nerfind magic find. It only shifts the advantage to characters with the fastest clear speed. In fact, the trade-off between survivability, DPS, and MF in itself creates a wider range of options for builds.
2) Removing desirable mods on gear makes the game easier, leads to repetitive and less interesting loot, and makes build creation simpler and less challenging.
3) Magic Find already has diminishing returns. While exact numbers are not available, this means moderate magic find characters may not be far behind those with much higher.

Nice list this time!
1) I already argued about it multiple times, that this whole MF - clear speed - survivability is in fact not a choice at all in current iteration of the game. Selecting anything aside MF leads to you are effectively blocked from high level loot, which means you actually aren't killing anything faster or surviving better as pure MF guy. So, by choosing between MF and anything else you are choosing between to play the game, or play the game handicapped with no benefits at all. Loot is necessary for all specs, but MF actually gets to see it drops.
2) I actually support this point. Here on page 37 I suggested how MF could be reworked to motivate players upgrading their items. But you yourself dismissed it after quoting the first sentence without even reading the post. The problem with your dismissing point was that high magic find is necessary up front when you start gearing up, or you will be unable to gear up at all, thus you effectively just built an MF character.
3) Yes, this is the current implementation of magic find that doesn't prove anything. The more magic find you have, the more loot you will see.

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jcmjx wrote:

I'd also like to see an example of one of these builds that is incapable of utilizing magic find.

Let's for example recall to one of the previous posts.

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Ispita wrote:

Problem with the rarity is that if it existed, you are required to have this particular gear if you want to see decent amount of drops.
Let me tell you something, what if someone is playing alone, or duoing with a friend, mapping etc, cannot really go to rarity gear, or the speed of clearing would be really low and even would be near death, and to be honest, who wants to lose a lot of dps and defense/hp when you have endgame gear? but it is still depressing to run maps with having 2 max 3 rare drops lol. Truth be told, i was farming in rarity+quantity gear in previouos league even when i already had really top gear... just because i could not handle having 2-3 rare drops each runs, and half of my gear was just lying in the stash.

On the other hand, 6man parties can afford a 350-400 or even more rarity player, who has completely zero dmg, just doing last hit with culling, probelm with this, is solo/duo cannot do this, my point would be, rarity should be based on an avarage value that would be calculated based on the total rarity of group members/number of the players in group. Summ all players rarity and devide by the number of the players.

P.s.: While I was typing this, lots of fresh posts added... I would also prefer no rebalancing of drops. Every league economics gets trashed with items found by MF'ers.

agree with the op, great post! +1

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iamstryker wrote:

My current position is that MF is either removed or given diminishing returns, with NO rebalance of drops after that.

Ok, let's lose a fex minutes and check your previous posts :

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For me the fun of the game is mostly in the loot. So consequently the only character I have been feeling like playing lately is my mf character. This is because its only on my mf character that I feel like I could ever find some decent rares/uniques.

I don't want to argue on what the problem is but I have to agree that there is a problem. I wish I could play the game with any of my characters and still feel like I could find something decent without playing for 10000 hours.

Of course, you wish to see THE SAME DROPS for people with 0 MF and be able to "play the game with any of my characters and still feel like I could find something decent without playing for 10000 hours."
No contradiction at all, isn't it ? But I continued to check some of your posts. About an increase in orbs drop rate

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If its the only way to make orbs actually useful for gambling then yes. Right now its stupid as hell to try to use them when you can just trade them.

Lying is bad and you should feel bad.
If you want to "play the game with any of my characters and still feel like I could find something decent without playing for 10000 hours.", L2P. In my old list, you're just showing us the strength of "4) Based on 1) and 2), if someone does it and they don't, they ask for a nerf of that char/build."