Remove MF completely from game

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ericcol2p wrote:

MF is a mistake in grinding gear games:) Just like it was on Diablo3, they added paragons and deleted mf from items,

That's because Diablo 3 is a game catered to casuals. It's closer to Gauntlet: Dark Legends than it is to traditional ARPGs. Path of Exile's stated intent is to be a complex game that is difficult to master. It's wrong to assume that what's right for Diablo's playerbase is right for PoE.

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Now group play is clearly superiour in every shape/form. The ONLY draw back to group play is loot ninjas which can be mitigated through Perm Allocation and/or only playing with friends.

What? Quantity is only increased by 50% for each player in a game. 350% divided between 6 people means you get 58% of what you would get playing solo. Even with a good MF culling striker, that character would need 250% quantity to get that back up to 100%. This means that with even moderate magic find gear, you're clearly better off solo for MFing. I have been playing maps both in groups and solo, and it's obvious in the extra amount of loot you get.

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jcmjx wrote:

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ericcol2p wrote:

MF is a mistake in grinding gear games:) Just like it was on Diablo3, they added paragons and deleted mf from items,

That's because Diablo 3 is a game catered to casuals. It's closer to Gauntlet: Dark Legends than it is to traditional ARPGs. Path of Exile's stated intent is to be a complex game that is difficult to master. It's wrong to assume that what's right for Diablo's playerbase is right for PoE.

"

Now group play is clearly superiour in every shape/form. The ONLY draw back to group play is loot ninjas which can be mitigated through Perm Allocation and/or only playing with friends.

What? Quantity is only increased by 50% for each player in a game. 350% divided between 6 people means you get 58% of what you would get playing solo. Even with a good MF culling striker, that character would need 250% quantity to get that back up to 100%. This means that with even moderate magic find gear, you're clearly better off solo for MFing. I have been playing maps both in groups and solo, and it's obvious in the extra amount of loot you get.

one caveat is that a group pooling their loot together, especially currency and map drops is more effective mapping. It is not, however, a phenomenon that can be changed by removing magic find loot or upping drop rates, nor is it a problem and doesnt need to be changed imo.

The game is not balanced... Hmmm i know lets nurf something. still not nurf more, an more an more for several patches and then some more.

We finally have a blanaced game, its called Pong...... enjoy a 100% fair game.



If you want farm speed u stack high gear and level with ease with low payoff

If you want more wealth stack mf gear enjoy slow killin speed low xp income and generally dying alot.

mf is like real life you dont get sh1t doing nothing. with the exception of lucky asshol3s who win the lottery / mirror of kalundra at lvl 1

on a serious note if u want gurenteed loot go back to wow with your guarenteed loot tables. and leave the Rng alone

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LostForm wrote:

one caveat is that a group pooling their loot together, especially currency and map drops is more effective mapping. It is not, however, a phenomenon that can be changed by removing magic find loot or upping drop rates, nor is it a problem and doesnt need to be changed imo.

Agreed. It does mean you have to make a choice - share map cost or get more loot from the maps. I see nothing wrong with this trade-off. I keep hearing the same thing parroted, that grouping is unarguably better no matter what, and it's completely wrong.

The problem I see with the MF system is that it's the concept of having your cake but not being able to eat it. Your cake is your normal gear, the actually fun to use gear. But you can't really use it or you will simply get less loot. What's the point of farming loot in a loot farming game without MF? We should be using our normal gear to tackle higher challenges to get more loot.

MF is very noticeable in this game, especially in part vs solo play. It's extremely discouraging that Uniques don't drop very often when you're playing alone, but if they drop and someone else gets them in a part game, that's even worse.

It's weird that there are two modifiers: IIR and IIQ. Consolidating them into one thing would make the game more streamlined. Making IIQ increase good socket rolls would help, too.

As for Diablo and Torchlight, their MF systems are also extremely messed up. D3 needs like 500 MF to get anything to even drop and TL 2 drops too much junk. PoE is leaning toward D3, I think, in the way that it handles its drops. Stack MF or GG.

Edit:

I just wanted to also mention how old games for SNES and whatnot, like Chrono Trigger and Link to the Past, among many others, gave players fixed rewards in per-determined areas. This ensures character progression and upgrades without detracting from the game's fun or story. Maybe making something like Descent's chests in the normal game would be a step in the right direction. I mean, who the hell wants to farm for decades and decades without a guarantee of something useful dropping?

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patlefort3 wrote:

The problem I see with the MF system is that it's the concept of having your cake but not being able to eat it.

That's a good way to put it. If we were to apply the same line of thinking to other areas of the game, you'd be removing every core mechanic. Reflect damage is a problem, because I want to have as high a DPS as possible. Resists are broken, it limits my gear choices, make it progressive to level. Why are 6-links only on chests, it limits my skill choices. Attribute requirements limit my choices... etc, etc, etc.

This game is all about finding a way to have your cake and eat it too. It's not easy to find the item that you want. In a loot finding game, as you call it, isn't that a good thing? Otherwise you find everything you need sooner, easier, and it's game over.

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jcmjx wrote:

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patlefort3 wrote:

The problem I see with the MF system is that it's the concept of having your cake but not being able to eat it.

That's a good way to put it. If we were to apply the same line of thinking to other areas of the game, you'd be removing every core mechanic. Reflect damage is a problem, because I want to have as high a DPS as possible. Resists are broken, it limits my gear choices, make it progressive to level. Why are 6-links only on chests, it limits my skill choices. Attribute requirements limit my choices... etc, etc, etc.

This game is all about finding a way to have your cake and eat it too. It's not easy to find the item that you want. In a loot finding game, as you call it, isn't that a good thing? Otherwise you find everything you need sooner, easier, and it's game over.

I also said that we should be using our normal gear to tackle higher challenges. Our normal gear is most of the time stashed to stack MF. End game should be challenging enough and rewarding because of the challenge and not because of broken builds around MF.

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patlefort3 wrote:

I also said that we should be using our normal gear to tackle higher challenges. Our normal gear is most of the time stashed to stack MF. End game should be challenging enough and rewarding because of the challenge and not because of broken builds around MF.

Where's the rule that says you have to use your MF gear in later maps? It doesn't stop you from getting more maps and more challenges (and guess what? you still get item drops!). You don't just want have your cake and eat it, you want it fed to you too.

EDIT: By the way, my main point with the last post is that - eventually - your normal gear will be your MF gear. It doesn't - nor should it - come easy.

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jcmjx wrote:

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patlefort3 wrote:

I also said that we should be using our normal gear to tackle higher challenges. Our normal gear is most of the time stashed to stack MF. End game should be challenging enough and rewarding because of the challenge and not because of broken builds around MF.

Where's the rule that says you have to use your MF gear in later maps? It doesn't stop you from getting more maps and more challenges (and guess what? you still get item drops!). You don't just want have your cake and eat it, you want it fed to you too.

EDIT: By the way, my main point with the last post is that - eventually - your normal gear will be your MF gear. It doesn't - nor should it - come easy.

You are correct in that Magic Find is trading current character power for future character power. But in current state of the game this "future" just never becomes reality. I also felt that it should be more rewarding to clear higher level maps with your awesome gear that you farmed via MF, but it is very far from truth. Higher level map drops are balanced around having even more magic find on top of them being harder!

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(and guess what? you still get item drops!)

These drops are not enough without magic find, and you lack currency to maintain a pool of maps. And there is never a point to try to do higher level maps without MF. 1-2 rare items for the whole map is really disappointing.

And again you are essentially state the problem yourself:

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By the way, my main point with the last post is that - eventually - your normal gear will be your MF gear.

This is where you actually realize, that you are so much better off playing a specific build, where MF stacking is done more effectively. So, while learning how to play the game more effectively, you realize that:
- for softcore this means only melee specs are shafted, and
- for hardcore this means only several build are viable (like aforementioned sporker) as you need a ranged spec with innate survivability.

While Magic Find appeared like a significant choice for you while you were learning how to play, it actually is a mandatory stat, that you should stack the most of. And I see now, you already realized that by yourself.