Remove MF completely from game

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Ispita wrote:

Problem with the rarity is that if it existed, you are required to have this particular gear if you want to see decent amount of drops.
Let me tell you something, what if someone is playing alone, or duoing with a friend, mapping etc, cannot really go to rarity gear, or the speed of clearing would be really low and even would be near death, and to be honest, who wants to lose a lot of dps and defense/hp when you have endgame gear? but it is still depressing to run maps with having 2 max 3 rare drops lol. Truth be told, i was farming in rarity+quantity gear in previouos league even when i already had really top gear... just because i could not handle having 2-3 rare drops each runs, and half of my gear was just lying in the stash.

On the other hand, 6man parties can afford a 350-400 or even more rarity player, who has completely zero dmg, just doing last hit with culling, probelm with this, is solo/duo cannot do this, my point would be, rarity should be based on an avarage value that would be calculated based on the total rarity of group members/number of the players in group. Summ all players rarity and devide by the number of the players.

This is a nice suggestion (and very enlightening post overall) and will definitely kill the above tactics with groups with a single high MF person. But it won't do anything special for the also mentioned solo or duoing situations. Most of all, this is exactly what other games do with their magic find mechanics, and most of all, this effectively makes
1) everyone now should have as much magic find as possible, and
2) makes grouping with less geared characters highly undesirable.

This actually leads to new problems (other games used to have), while elimination of magic find effectively solves the other ones the game already has. We need a solution that doesn't promote solo play (as magic find averaging would do), the game is stated by the devs to be absolutely viable both for solo and group play.

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Talkii wrote:

nice idea, but i dont think it will happen.
it sux , that some of your items cant be changed, if u wanna reach decent IIQ/IIR.
aurseize, andvarius(es), 2 support gem, and so on.

ps : i got a lv82 ek, lv85 ranger, and got ~60iiq,200iir on them, both of them can clear lv70 maps pretty fast, but my ranger would need a 7L item to get LA-lmp-chain-wed-lifegainonhit-IIQ-IIR

To be honest, in all seriousness I doubt this will ever happen as well. But as far as the topic goes, there actually is nothing special about magic find, that makes people love the specific mechanics. So possibly, the game could be better without it.

I mean strength or dexterity - this could be a choice of personal taste.
Even Fire Resist can be optional up to a point, as you can have as low as +50% on end game maps (due to map affix for example) and still be fine if you pay additional attention.

But magic find - how could that be an option? You will either have loot or not. Who doesn't play the game at levels 85+ if not for loot? And while you can make a dedicated effort to play just for the sole reason to kill monsters as fast as you can (which is what races actually require of you) but getting close to no loot at all significantly diminishes overall experience in my opinion. It's even hard to sustain maps (having less currency drops as well, and solo is even worse), why playing if there is no loot as well? I can't see exactly this and want MF to go away.

Sum all players rarity and devide by the number of the players.


You still need someone with a stupidly high rarity, and if the other players have very low or zero rarity its even worse .... every1 will have for example 60 rarity now.

Same bad idea if you give every1 the highest mf number of one person ... one person has to be the mf guy still, except now he/she doesnt need to do the killing anymore, so they're even more useless and its so lame.

I dont see any problem with IR as of now.

If people want, they can go for pure ownage gear and try to reach 100.
If people want, they can go for pure IR gear and get those uniques.
If people want, they can go for a mix inbetween these 2 and enjoy farming items w/ sufficient killspeed.
It's only a question of "balance". A pure IR char can rarely farm the whole content, so you have to account for that as well.
The real endgame maps are usually only playable in a party. I'd hope for even more challenging ones in the future.

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Dan1986 wrote:

I dont see any problem with IR as of now.
If people want, they can go for pure ownage gear and try to reach 100.

wrong. you will lack in currency and maps.

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Dan1986 wrote:

The real endgame maps are usually only playable in a party. I'd hope for even more challenging ones in the future.

wrong. i can clear 77 maps solo.

do you even have something in endgame?

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HeroOfExile wrote:

"

Dan1986 wrote:

I dont see any problem with IR as of now.
If people want, they can go for pure ownage gear and try to reach 100.

wrong. you will lack in currency and maps.

"

Dan1986 wrote:

The real endgame maps are usually only playable in a party. I'd hope for even more challenging ones in the future.

wrong. i can clear 77 maps solo.

do you even have something in endgame?

I have the same attitude here, pwnage gear isn't even remotely comparable to MF gear.

But Dan1986 definitely has the point that group play is far too easy (or solo is too punishing with crappy drops). I strongly believe this is the negative result of magic find.

If you consider playing solo at the moment playing in "pure ownage gear" is out of the question. You either pick MF (and when adapting to lowered survivability, you commit yourself into cheap builds like sporker) or you make it wrong. You won't see any loot dropping for you, and won't have enough currency to even sustain maps. I tried this in 1 month party race (S02E046), so I can back this up with my own experience.

im 87 in "pure ownage gear". after my break i made around ~20 ex due trades. i need around 2-3 ex in chaos/chisels an evening.

just yesterday i burned trough 100 chaos just for mapping. its so fun to roll a map like 15 times until its good and you get no map in return. this happens way too much.

on top of that i died to a incredible desync. did you ever joined a map and had like a 30 seconds desync without noticing it until you are suddenly dead? fun times i can tell ... but thats another story.

now im down to 3 ex in 2 weeks of mapping. guess what i do if my currency i gone down the drain again?

edit: a 77 maps cost me 4 ex. WTF? if you are casual, dont try POE.

I feel for you, HeroOfExile. It's extremely sad dying to desync, but we can only hope this will get improved sooner rather than later. But when it comes to playing hardcore, one such issue and I need to start over from scratch. So I am forced to build around all those desyncs just to have at least some guarantees about surviving such accidents. Adding magic find on top of that just tears apart any options I may have as I am primarily a solo player.

By the way, thank you for your feedback a lot! I see you are a high level softcore player, and the pattern we see repeats itself. Players (regardless of preferred league) start thinking magic find is all right at lower levels, then reach end game and realize that it's not so all right any more.

I thought magic find was all right myself, opted out of it, and now I know my choice was invalid having 88 HC Marauder with only a bunch of 66-67 maps left, and I saw literally no loot upgrades dropped after player level 81 (and no major loot upgrades from probably as low as level 75).

So what's the point? It's generally not a valid option when you get to choose between correct and wrong answer. It is a learning issue, and once you know it all, there is no choice at all. Magic Find is the only correct answer between "options", thus mandatory and should be removed from the game.

I've discussed drop rates with developers (not GGG yet.. hoping to catch them sometime!) at events like PAX. What high MF people fail to understand is that game developers who set the drop rate, must take the MF of players into consideration when setting drop rates. MF players think that drop rates are based off of 0% MF and go from there. What developers do is look at the average drop rate (ergo average MF) of players and then use that as the point of consideration when setting drop rates for items they want to control which in GGGs case is currency. Essentially MF players shoot themselves in the foot and hurt entire gaming communities when they run extremely high MF. If the community is running high MF the drop rates are set low to counter the high MF. The reasoning is that if the community average is high then most players are able to accommodate MF into their gear. This is why a few months ago those with out MF were ok with drop rates and now its killing us. That and I think GGG has a rounding error somewhere in their formula cause there does seem to be a point of huge returns at around 50% in. So its either a formula bug in GGGs case or an physical floor for drop rates. Given my discussions with developers I would say that its a floor.

I'd have no problems with rarity/quantity gear if the map system wasn't so completely broken. It costs tons of currency to give yourself just a chance to get a map. And we all know, not getting a map drop in a well rolled map happens all too often. I recently started adding MF gear to try and recoup some of the costs. The problem is that every single rare is also trash and can't be sold. Even pretty solid items are hard to sell. So my income consists of vendoring rares with the occasional chaos recipe when I have the jewelry for it. The perceived problems with MF all stem from the fact that POE has a horrible economy and the trading system is absolutely awful.

It's really no surprise that people bot and RMT in this game. The grind is far worse than any game of its kind. You have to drain yourself of resources just to continue leveling and progressing. No other similar games have such a mechanic, and it's a major issue.