Remove MF completely from game

I agree that in a game about gearing up with better loot, MF becomes extremely desirable. And it seems unfair that ranged classes are more able to stack MF while melee characters get the shaft.

I don't mind MF as a mechanic, but I agree that I wouldn't mind it being removed from gear, or being relegated to a certain equipment slot or something. Hell, maybe add a new equipment slot specifically for MF and other non-combat bonuses, like IIQ. Something like 'charm' equipment slot? MF / IIQ, would only appear on these charms, so the fun of hunting bigger MF numbers is still there. Charm slots would only have bonuses that are equally useful to all classes and don't effect combat effectiveness. Just a thought.

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deadlylag wrote:

It is well known that speed > item gears in any farming game. The MF system allows players to decide if they want to go with a slow ass high MF gear build or a pure speed farming build. By adding MF bonuses to maps the decision is harder to make. While the system isn't prefect at least the game didn't deteriorate to every farming builds into speed. Speed is still better in PoE.

I have HC 88 Marauder and used to have 83 HC witch. How many hours do You guess I farmed? The point is I stayed away from magic find gear, and as the result none of my gear was self-found, I had to buy everything. But I am not complaining at all, this is the game, it's cool. When I was in a party with MF sporker, I was flooded with rares. Among them there were the ones that I used to buy pretty often. That is why is my point.

In Path of Exile in its current form, neither speed nor farming speed is never better than magic find. If we look at what option MF is giving us - it's the choice of being decent and mediocre. That's why the answer is predefined, and the choice is not appealing at all. Nothing more of a noob trap.

When you see MF characters are mandatory for every party, you know there is a problem.

The solution that golgi offered is definitely a step in the right direction, as it neutralizes negative impact of magic find on builds. And when you think about it further, it is essentially the same as the thread suggests but in a different way.

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deadlylag wrote:

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Daefecator wrote:

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deadlylag wrote:

98% of the players base are morons. They can't play at a decent level and these are the people that giving advices to the developers.

Hey? I would leave pointless insults aside. I definitely see you have a great point (and at the gut level I agree), still feedback is feedback is feedback. Every opinion counts.

It true that 98% of the player base in any game can't play at a decent level. If you give them the best build in the game they will play it at a subpar level and still get jealous by other builds. These are the people that giving advices to the developers.

It is well known that speed > item gears in any farming game. The MF system allows players to decide if they want to go with a slow ass high MF gear build or a pure speed farming build. By adding MF bonuses to maps the decision is harder to make. While the system isn't prefect at least the game didn't deteriorate to every farming builds into speed. Speed is still better in PoE.

Where are you getting this information from?? MF builds can fill an inventory with rares multiple times in 1 docks run. Your 'speed farming' build can't match that unless you've also got high MF. And dual spark isn't slow at all, the clear speeds would only be marginally different.

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lukeiy wrote:

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deadlylag wrote:

It true that 98% of the player base in any game can't play at a decent level. If you give them the best build in the game they will play it at a subpar level and still get jealous by other builds. These are the people that giving advices to the developers.

It is well known that speed > item gears in any farming game. The MF system allows players to decide if they want to go with a slow ass high MF gear build or a pure speed farming build. By adding MF bonuses to maps the decision is harder to make. While the system isn't prefect at least the game didn't deteriorate to every farming builds into speed. Speed is still better in PoE.

Where are you getting this information from?? MF builds can fill an inventory with rares multiple times in 1 docks run. Your 'speed farming' build can't match that unless you've also got high MF. And dual spark isn't slow at all, the clear speeds would only be marginally different.

I hate it when pointless swearing mixes with valid concerns, but the internal quoted post is a hilarious example of self-pwnage. I realize that I may be unable to play the game at a decent level, but I only base my feedback on what I saw in game and know for sure.

To summarize. Up to this point we get the following feedback:
- Arguments against Magic Find mostly come from high level competitive players (racers) and the problem concerns mostly hardcore players.
- Magic Find is negatively viewed as limiting either builds diversity or personal playstyle (desire for item hunting as in hunting monsters, not looting monsters as efficient as possible).
- Magic Find mechanics feels acceptable and meaningful to mostly low level players and softcore non competitive type of players.
- Players who actively argue for Magic Find to stay, unfortunately, tended to fallback onto expressing themselves more explicitly when explaining their arguments.
- Most of the players who provided feedback (both for and against MF removal) expressed their concerns about Magic Find mechanics and suggested some band-aids how to fix it. They will require loot drops rebalancing on top of implementing these band-aids themselves.
- Removing of Magic Find will require only rebalancing of loot drops distribution, and is virtually enough to satisfy everyone.
- Overall Magic Find removal is viewed negatively because players are concerned they will never be able to see loot drops.

somehow, my last respond didnt arrive in the thread... so I try to keep it (somewhat) short;

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Daefecator wrote:

- Overall Magic Find removal is viewed negatively because players are concerned they will never be able to see loot drops.

Of course not, of course its possible to adjust/increase drop rates to match up the desired amount of loot, but this would:
-equal out everyone without effort beside more time investment
-not and never equal out the fact that there is still RNG - even with a rebalance on a 500% rate some may be that unlucky to see nothing but crap. And, which rate should we imagine for the loss of IIQ, should we really all see that 50 or 100% increment?
-remove one aspect (as two stats) from the game. REMOVING options will never add diversity, it only either flattens out (if 'unneccessary' things are removed) or makes other things/stats the "mandatory" ones. From the view on all stats that have no or minor effect on the "big main goal", you could remove the huge majority of anything, nearly anything beside life, resists and huge damage... ^^ that 'easy' seems not the way GGG wants their game to be, and the struggle should raise along with char's progress.

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golgi wrote:

I agree that in a game about gearing up with better loot, MF becomes extremely desirable. And it seems unfair that ranged classes are more able to stack MF while melee characters get the shaft.

I don't mind MF as a mechanic, but I agree that I wouldn't mind it being removed from gear, or being relegated to a certain equipment slot or something. Hell, maybe add a new equipment slot specifically for MF and other non-combat bonuses, like IIQ. Something like 'charm' equipment slot? MF / IIQ, would only appear on these charms, so the fun of hunting bigger MF numbers is still there. Charm slots would only have bonuses that are equally useful to all classes and don't effect combat effectiveness. Just a thought.

like!

many good ideas in this thread. devs can be glad they have us brainstorming i think.

disagree with OP, don't change the system.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

somehow, my last respond didnt arrive in the thread... so I try to keep it (somewhat) short;

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Daefecator wrote:

- Overall Magic Find removal is viewed negatively because players are concerned they will never be able to see loot drops.

Of course not, of course its possible to adjust/increase drop rates to match up the desired amount of loot, but this would:
-equal out everyone without effort beside more time investment
-not and never equal out the fact that there is still RNG - even with a rebalance on a 500% rate some may be that unlucky to see nothing but crap. And, which rate should we imagine for the loss of IIQ, should we really all see that 50 or 100% increment?
-remove one aspect (as two stats) from the game. REMOVING options will never add diversity, it only either flattens out (if 'unneccessary' things are removed) or makes other things/stats the "mandatory" ones. From the view on all stats that have no or minor effect on the "big main goal", you could remove the huge majority of anything, nearly anything beside life, resists and huge damage... ^^ that 'easy' seems not the way GGG wants their game to be, and the struggle should raise along with char's progress.

When you reach farming level 72+ maps, I assure You, your point of view will change significantly. It may seem as though eliminating options weakens the overall choice. When in this case it is enforcing the meaning of other options available for you. Maximum character level of 67 is unfortunately just not high enough to see the situation in the whole.

There are excellent choices in the game, like resists, health, movement speed, energy shield, armor, +damage and etc.
There are choices that need some fixes, like evasion (making IR mandatory and also bad)
There are purposefully weak choices like light radius and thorns that I suppose are currently designed specifically to garbage up the affix table, though I like thorns as a concept and think it just needs major help to start shining.
Then there are these very IIQ and IIR stats that effectively block you away from loot when you opt out of them that breaks everything apart. I am basing this on my HC level 88 marauder experience.

nice idea, but i dont think it will happen.
it sux , that some of your items cant be changed, if u wanna reach decent IIQ/IIR.
aurseize, andvarius(es), 2 support gem, and so on.

ps : i got a lv82 ek, lv85 ranger, and got ~60iiq,200iir on them, both of them can clear lv70 maps pretty fast, but my ranger would need a 7L item to get LA-lmp-chain-wed-lifegainonhit-IIQ-IIR

Problem with the rarity is that if it existed, you are required to have this particular gear if you want to see decent amount of drops.
Let me tell you something, what if someone is playing alone, or duoing with a friend, mapping etc, cannot really go to rarity gear, or the speed of clearing would be really low and even would be near death, and to be honest, who wants to lose a lot of dps and defense/hp when you have endgame gear? but it is still depressing to run maps with having 2 max 3 rare drops lol. Truth be told, i was farming in rarity+quantity gear in previouos league even when i already had really top gear... just because i could not handle having 2-3 rare drops each runs, and half of my gear was just lying in the stash.

On the other hand, 6man parties can afford a 350-400 or even more rarity player, who has completely zero dmg, just doing last hit with culling, probelm with this, is solo/duo cannot do this, my point would be, rarity should be based on an avarage value that would be calculated based on the total rarity of group members/number of the players in group. Summ all players rarity and devide by the number of the players.