Remove MF completely from game

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jcmjx wrote:

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Daefecator wrote:

Currently, the game doesn't give players high enough incentive to ever upgrade their items.

Yes it does. One of those incentives to upgrade is to obtain MF, which you're in favor of removing. It doesn't make sense.

High level players do not care about mf nor can they reliable stack dps due to reflect unless they have a soon to be nerfed build that can somehow bypass reflect. Gear progression has a low ceiling and completely unnecessary due to how much health you need to offset dps.

ARPGs are based around loot. Working towards high MF and then cumming when you see all your rares drop is the point. Getting rid of it would just make the game dull.

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Treble wrote:

ARPGs are based around loot. Working towards high MF and then cumming when you see all your rares drop is the point. Getting rid of it would just make the game dull.

The point is that with MF as an item stat, you will never equip the loot you so much want to find. So.. play with mf because you want to find awesome items -> find awesome items -> don't use them because playing without mf you won't find any new items.

MF as an item stat is the dumbest design in D2, and it's still ridiculously bad in PoE.

Mf is cancer in poe

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jcmjx wrote:

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Daefecator wrote:

Currently, the game doesn't give players high enough incentive to ever upgrade their items.

Yes it does. One of those incentives to upgrade is to obtain MF, which you're in favor of removing. It doesn't make sense.

Actually, if you read the whole post you're quoting this from, You would have realized that I suggested exactly this - upgrade items for obtaining MF, but not at the expense of combat affixes.

I will explain this for You once more. You either build Your character to have as much defense and damage potential as possible, or you make MF sporker. You cannot mix MF organically into your build, as you always loose character power in the process.

And once again answering to the post directly. Excluding sporkers, it is never efficient to change immediate character power for MF at any point in the game.

If you, for example, have triple res high health 5L chest, you will never ever even consider even higher triple res even higher high health non linked chest with added IIQ and IIR on top of that as an upgrade. Crafting 5L is way too costly to make up for some IIQ/IIR gain.

And this is actually the best case - swapping triple res linked chest for double res + IIQ or IIR is simply never an option.

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Treble wrote:

ARPGs are based around loot. Working towards high MF and then cumming when you see all your rares drop is the point. Getting rid of it would just make the game dull.

Yes, you are 100% correct. But ARPGs are also based around fighting monsters and actively gimping your fighting ability (as is the case we are trying to resolve) to enhance looting ability is much more dull.

Just think about it more - why build fighter, if You are never able to equip him? So you need a looter as an alternative character to equip your main. You are forced to do boring things, unfortunately this doesn't add any enjoyment to this awesome game.

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Daefecator wrote:

And this is actually the best case - swapping triple res linked chest for double res + IIQ or IIR is simply never an option.

Small mistake : no MF for a chest, but we don't care. You should know better than me how easy you can cap resists in this game (and that's why THERE ARE SOMETHING MORE CALLED MF), so yes, it can be an option if you don't need that 3rd resist. Unless you plan to build your char around several uniques without resists (but you won't change these pieces, MF or not), but that's part of the tradeoff of the uniques.

Again, you're simply hiding a "BUFF ME LULZ" sentence behind the mighty word "balance". And YOU ARE FUCKING ABLE TO EQUIP YOUR FUCKING FIGHTER. WITH A FUCKING LEVEL 88 MARA IN HC, YOU ShOULD KNOW IT.

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Daefecator wrote:

You either build Your character to have as much defense and damage potential as possible, or you make MF sporker.

Or, you do what I did, and make the character you want to play. There's this idea that everyone deserves to be on an equal playing field, regardless of build, which almost extends from Marxist ideals. The devs have stated before that PoE is a game of choices. MF being a part of the equation holds true to this ideal. I'm not a sporker. I started Anarchy as a axe and board life-based cyclone that I created on my own. Guess what? Found a lioneye's glare, marohi erqi, rise of the phoenix, and half of my gear is my own.

Do you even know that MF has diminishing returns already? A sporker with 300 MF may only equate to 150. If anything, that's the extent we should go to nerf MF.

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Hovergame wrote:

Small mistake : no MF for a chest, but we don't care. You should know better than me how easy you can cap resists in this game (and that's why THERE ARE SOMETHING MORE CALLED MF), so yes, it can be an option if you don't need that 3rd resist. Unless you plan to build your char around several uniques without resists (but you won't change these pieces, MF or not), but that's part of the tradeoff of the uniques.

Again, you're simply hiding a "BUFF ME LULZ" sentence behind the mighty word "balance". And YOU ARE FUCKING ABLE TO EQUIP YOUR FUCKING FIGHTER. WITH A FUCKING LEVEL 88 MARA IN HC, YOU ShOULD KNOW IT.

Ok, but also a small mistake: it was easy to cap resists. Along with nerfing hp nodes resist keystones were nerfed as well, so it is no longer the case. Also you don't need to constantly swear at all as this doesn't add any weight to your words at all.

As for gearing my level 88 marauder - I ranked 24 in 1 month party race, and I feel like I was forced to play in a party after not seeing a single upgrade after like level 50. I am a solo player, but with an MF sporker (after like level 76) I picked several excellent upgrades. After I left the party (at around level 81), I was not seeing a single upgrade at all. My stat priority on items was +health, lightning resist, cold resist, fire resist, evasion, armor, and then MF, but as you can see there are no more affix slots for MF left at all.

If you wish to read some more of my thoughts about the race, please read this post of mine. I share some of mine experience about how easily you can really swap anything for Magic Find, but in short

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Daefecator wrote:

My point here is, at that time I had at about 6k hp buffed (~6.2k hp max), 520 hp/s regen with 7 endurance charges, 13.4k armor (38k under granite flask), BM powered 6.1k EK dps, and I lost track of close call situations where I was dropped to double-digit number of HP... If I had just a little bit less defense (like 500 hp less), I definitely wouldn't have made it to the end at all.

And finally, as for using http://poestatistics.com I can see the highest character of yours is 81 Ranger. Have you tried playing non-ranged specs at all? Ranged characters have it much easier overall, and I am sure you will feel MF mechanic on Hardcore leagues in particular in a very different way than you do now. It's just not viable to achieve reasonable MF levels on melee characters at all. It's not asking for any buffs - it's unreasonable to even try playing melee characters, as it not only requires much more survivability in the first place, but also effectively locks you out of MF gear at all. Why play melee, when you know you won't be able to progress with him naturally? MF kills build diversity, is a dull redundant mechanic and should be either reworked or removed for good.
P.s.: After all my rants about melee characters being not viable and stuff, I should confess, that I love playing melee, I played a Feral Druid in World of Warcraft (April 2005 - April 2012), and I died countless times after Merciless Ledge with all my melee characters. I was totally under an impression that I was really bad at this game, lol! But after all my failures I decided to give ranged a chance - and was perfectly able to get to level 83 as an EK witch first try! Awesome luck? Second try was even more successful - my level 88 EK Marauder. Melee are gimped in so many ways in Path of Exile - skill tree allows for anyone to be everyone, so any amount of defense you can get is so much more effective on ranged characters. Melees being effectively locked out of magic find gear is another problem. And while the first one is somehow out of current topic, total elimination of MF will be the step in the right direction to help diversify builds for this game.

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Asphael wrote:

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Treble wrote:

ARPGs are based around loot. Working towards high MF and then cumming when you see all your rares drop is the point. Getting rid of it would just make the game dull.

The point is that with MF as an item stat, you will never equip the loot you so much want to find. So.. play with mf because you want to find awesome items -> find awesome items -> don't use them because playing without mf you won't find any new items.

MF as an item stat is the dumbest design in D2, and it's still ridiculously bad in PoE.

Good summarization of lots of posts in here.

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jcmjx wrote:

Or, you do what I did, and make the character you want to play.

I support You for this 140% (I'm from Russia btw).

I just can't really see how You won't be able to enjoy the game with the build you want to play without strange MF mechanics?

Part of the equation? As I can see, You are speaking about Damage - Survivability - Magic Find here. Well, it's totally not at all like Strength - Intelligence - Dexterity at all. Otherwise at least some passive key stones would give magic find to support this equation. I can easily see how people can prefer strength or intelligence or dexterity according to their personal taste. But noone will ever prefer to skip Magic Find. I see You prefer Magic Find, what I really fail to see is anyone who would prefer anything else. Well, survivability is necessary up to a point if playing hardcore. This limits possible build combination.

Magic Find is mandatory archaic mechanic of the genre and should be removed.

If you are about to play slot machines, what would you prefer - big starting pool of money, stable money income, whatever else, or better win chance? "Better win chance" is best hands down, as is Magic Find.