Remove MF completely from game

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Hovergame wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

PoE does have the problem of MF affixes. The question, I guess, is whether to pull a paragon and try to pull wool over the eyes of the players, or be upfront about it and just nerf MF affixes directly while increasing base drops to compensate.

Or you could simply stop to ask for a buff becuase you don't like MF.

It has nothing to do with buffing/nerfing (read: changing numbers) and everything to do with design.

The questions are: Do you want MF to be a stat or do you want MF to occur naturally by killing efficiently? If you want it as a stat, where do you want it to be available?

I agree with Scrotie's early summary:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

MF is good on uniques when balanced with drawbacks; using MF gear should mean really gimping yourself somehow, similar to how Kaom's gimps you socket-wise.

MF is awesome on maps, and actually needs to be used more aggressively to make players actually try the difficult mods.

MF has no place on rare items, as a support gem, or as an intrinsic mod whatsoever.

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Hovergame wrote:

Next time, find 5 friends an do that map in group without MF and compare the loot/time.

Seriously, I'm getting tired of this stupid thread. It doesn't work against build diversity, since you can build WITH or WITHOUT MF.

You think I would have had the same amount of loot running that map with low mf and splitting everything that dropped with five other people? I don't think so. It would have cleared maybe a little faster but I could simply clear it by myself and hoard the 25-35(estimate) rares and all of the currency/uniques that drop.

Also your argument would assume that if I want to play any character and get decent drops I would then have to play in a full group. The devs said they built this game around solo play, shouldn't it be balanced for solo then and not around a full party?

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Hovergame wrote:

Or you could simply stop to ask for a buff becuase you don't like MF.

Its hard to have a legitimate discussion about this when you believe the above statement.

+1 for OP.

I fully support this.

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Hovergame wrote:

Seriously, I'm getting tired of this stupid thread. It doesn't work against build diversity, since you can buold WITH or WITHOUT MF.

Thank You very much for your continuous support in this quite important gameplay question. Your ideas are brilliant conceptually and your argumentation line is perfect.

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iamstryker wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

Next time, find 5 friends an do that map in group without MF and compare the loot/time.

Seriously, I'm getting tired of this stupid thread. It doesn't work against build diversity, since you can build WITH or WITHOUT MF.

You think I would have had the same amount of loot running that map with low mf and splitting everything that dropped with five other people? I don't think so. It would have cleared maybe a little faster but I could simply clear it by myself and hoard the 25-35(estimate) rares and all of the currency/uniques that drop.

Also your argument would assume that if I want to play any character and get decent drops I would then have to play in a full group. The devs said they built this game around solo play, shouldn't it be balanced for solo then and not around a full party?

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Hovergame wrote:

Or you could simply stop to ask for a buff becuase you don't like MF.

Its hard to have a legitimate discussion about this when you believe the above statement.

That's hard to listen to someone who tell us full bullshit.
If I check your account on POE statitic, you haven't played your level 82 char in a while. I ssume you haven't cleared a 72 map (if you did) with that char. Conclusion : you did with a level 79 char. yes, you would do WAY faster in a full group of level 80+ players. Simple math : 6 players, 350% HP. You're telling me you were OS'ing everything on the screen ? Suuuuuure.

I could continue for hours. Why do you think people group to farm if you could simply kill as fast alone AND get more loots ? Seriously, some people have difficulties to see what lies in front of their eyes.

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Hovergame wrote:

That's hard to listen to someone who tell us full bullshit.
If I check your account on POE statitic, you haven't played your level 82 char in a while. I ssume you haven't cleared a 72 map (if you did) with that char. Conclusion : you did with a level 79 char. yes, you would do WAY faster in a full group of level 80+ players. Simple math : 6 players, 350% HP. You're telling me you were OS'ing everything on the screen ? Suuuuuure.

I could continue for hours. Why do you think people group to farm if you could simply kill as fast alone AND get more loots ? Seriously, some people have difficulties to see what lies in front of their eyes.

Well if you respond to what I actually wrote, I did say a group would clear faster, what I am disputing is that the extra speed would be worth it. I would rather go a little slower and get a mega crap ton of rares. Nothing is being divided among the group. Any good unique that drops is mine. You also ignored my comment that this discussion isn't just about solo vs. group. Even if I agreed with you what does that mean? That non mf players HAVE to group to make it worth it? I don't really see that as being an ok solution to the problem being discussed.

And ya my spectres tore down the guys in that 72 map with hardly a difference to if I was doing a 60's map.

I totally agree with the OP post but MF is so intricated in the game at this point that it would be freaking hell to fix.
Melee characters are such at a huge disadvantages when it comes to gear MF without dying that getting decent loots with these builds are awfully frustrating. Besides getting good gear becomes just for show when you want to run the best MF at all time to get even better loot.

Currently, the game doesn't give players high enough incentive to ever upgrade their items. After you get your 5L/6L and capping out on resistances, you are pretty much good to go. Yes, you still prefer items that give you more of your desirable stat after those, be it +health for added survivability or +damage mods or +MF mods, but the chance of finding a replacement for your chest armor is incredibly low right now.

Let me explain, chest armor implicit requirement to be considered good is very high. It has to have either 5-6L and good rolls on top of that, or have absolutely insane rolls to even have a chance to be worth "crafting" links in it. Otherwise than that - you are better just selling the item, and sticking to whatever already good armor You have. This significantly lowers the chance to ever upgrade your items, and the overall incentive to swap loot becomes moot - too costly to do that for negligible gains.

Second thing is that 2H weapons are currently almost always are far worse than dual wield or sword and board setup. Going for 2x potentially 6L items almost never worth it, because current skill gem setup doesn't allow for compensating lost survivability (from potential shield) without using specific legendaries like Kaom's Heart. Speaking from hardcore gameplay point of view, having 2-handed weapon is absolutely never worth it in end-game unless you are using very limited set of legendaries like Kaom's Heart, Marohi Erqi, Taryn's Shiver. So what is the point of having 2H mechanics, when it is never worth it in non-legendary case?

Concluding this, the "difficulties" to replace a specific item is proportional to the maximum amount of sockets that the base item is allowed to have, meaning it's close to impossible to find an item worth replacing your chest or 2H item, it's quite nice chance to replace your helmet/gloves/boots, very easy to replace your 1H weapon or a shield, and a total non-issue to replace rings/amulets/belt. This is caused by the necessity to "refine" your items before the it is ready to use for your character's build needs - make sockets of necessary colors and linking them.

TLDR: I would offer on top of removing MF affixes, have them as an explicit function scaling linearly against item level and exponentially for number of sockets an item have. That way upgrading your armor to higher ilvl will be always worth it to have better chances at getting even better loot. It will help naturally motivate people actively spending currency and play the game more instead of stockpiling wealth to just buy whatever is offered for trade, thus it will help reduce benefits of RMT significantly.

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Daefecator wrote:

Currently, the game doesn't give players high enough incentive to ever upgrade their items.

Yes it does. One of those incentives to upgrade is to obtain MF, which you're in favor of removing. It doesn't make sense.