Remove MF completely from game

The concept of magic find never really appealed to me for the sole fact that not every character/build can utilize magic find to the same effect.

There are builds that can utilize magic find without really giving up anything at all (summoners and CI cold builds in particular), while other builds (and especially melees) cannot utilize magic find at all without severely gimping their character´s strength.
These characters arbitrarily have an advantage over other characters when it comes to MFing.

Do we really need MF on gear in an ARPG?
If there is one thing that D3 tried to make better than D2, then it is their approach to magic find.
Magic find is a tedious stat that you dont really want to get, but which you are forced to get to stay efficient.
The D3 devs realized how tedious the mechanic was (especially in D3 because you have a huge inventory space where you can store your MF gear) and tried to remove it from the game.

They realized that the stat itself actually has a place in the game, but that they had to uncouple it from gear to make it less tedious.
They have the nephalem valor stack and the paragon lvl bonus mf and the difficulty setting bonus mf, which basically allows them to harness some of the good sideeffect of MF (better loot for people that do stronger opponents), while at the same time removing the tedious aspect of MF gear only really being accessible to broken builds (in regards to MF, NOT broken in general).

Their system isnt optimal either, because paragon levels basically mean that someone that plays longer gets more loot, but that person already gets more loot through playing more, which means that they get double the advantage for playing longer.

MF should be completely uncoupled from gear, and solely dependant on monster power.
Path of exile actually has the perfect system for this in place already: the map system.
The harder you enchant the map, the more quantity it grants.
I suggest that we completely remove IIQ/IIR from gear, and completely move that mechanic to the map system, not just limiting it to item quantity.

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iamstryker wrote:

And your still ignoring the main concerns brought up. I'm not at all complaining about players getting more currency because they play more, thats a given. I just think its dumb to assume the entire game is perfectly fine simply because these players play all day and are rich. They should be rich if they play all day! Thats a given.

Thats why I asked how you define balance earlier. In my eyes the game is fine, you invest more time to get a bigger payout or simply play a specific build. In my eyes theres no reason to catter to the people who dont want to do either since it would just dumb down the game and wouldnt change anything about the situation.

What do you think happens if people have more currency drops? That the items these players cant afford will suddenly go down in price? It will be the exact opposite. Since everybody now has 5 Exalted drops per week the prices will skyrocket since there will be people who invest more than twice the amount of time, so have way more currency and will make use of it. Kaoms doesnt go for 30 but 60 now. Congratulations, nothing was accomplished.

Changing IIR/IIQ is pointless since it will not solve the casual playerbases problems. Their problem is that they dont have access to the best items and thats only solved by the devs increasing the drop rates of specific uniques.

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iamstryker wrote:

No I don't because I am currently at work and will be leaving soon to go home and go to sleep because I am about to pass out from lack of it.

God, this is pathetic.

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iamstryker wrote:

And your still ignoring the main concerns brought up. I'm not at all complaining about players getting more currency because they play more, thats a given. I just think its dumb to assume the entire game is perfectly fine simply because these players play all day and are rich. They should be rich if they play all day! Thats a given.

I still don't get the point. If the top players needs 20h of play to be level 60 when a new league starts and there isn't any economy, what prevents you to do the same ? What prevents you to be level 60 after 20h of time played ?

If, after a few days, they are the first to clear high level maps, when they cannot buy upgrades for their gear since nobody else cannot get these upgrades, what prevents you to do exactly the same, but after perhaps a month ?

I don't, again, get the point about being "rich". Currencies are just a shortcut, but the top players, when a new league starts, cannot even use it. And when you would have spent a few chaos for an upgrades, the top players drop it and save their currencies.
So, yes, the game is balanced because they can do it. The only thing they can do and you can't is about REALLY HIGH endgame. The game starts to be slow after the level 80, really slow after 85 and incredibely slow after 90.

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I suggest that we completely remove IIQ/IIR from gear, and completely move that mechanic to the map system, not just limiting it to item quantity.

Ok, and in the same time, we cut by half the DPS and Resistances of every single player in the game.

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nynyny wrote:

Thats why I asked how you define balance earlier. In my eyes the game is fine, you invest more time to get a bigger payout or simply play a specific build. In my eyes theres no reason to catter to the people who dont want to do either since it would just dumb down the game and wouldnt change anything about the situation.

You said it yourself. You have to play a specfic build, how is that good for the game? Your continually making this about having more drops which I don't feel like thats what I am advocating at all. If magic find was less important then low mf builds could then get ok drops, they wouldnt all of the sudden get rich or anything. They would still be worse than the designated magic find builds that we have been discussing. So where is this argument for loot raining from the sky that you keep bringing up?

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nynyny wrote:

God, this is pathetic.

What are you complaining about now? Its somehow amazing that I am at a job and posting on this forum?

Edit: By the way Ghouns post above is talking about exactly what I have been saying this whole time. In fact, I have to go now so anyone wanting to know what I am talking about should just read Ghouns post. Have a nice day.

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Hovergame wrote:

"

I suggest that we completely remove IIQ/IIR from gear, and completely move that mechanic to the map system, not just limiting it to item quantity.

Ok, and in the same time, we cut by half the DPS and Resistances of every single player in the game.

What would that achieve?
If you cut everyones dps and resistances by half then it is as if you hadnt changed anything at all.

That comment obviously originates from you having a MF character that opposes a change that removes MF from the game.
You are biased and made a stupid comment (that makes no sense) in order to defend your standpoint.

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LostForm wrote:

do you fucking honestly expect to play for 2 hours a day and aquire as much loot as someone playing 12 hours a day.

In what fantasy world do you live in that you could even imagine a system that will allow you to aquire as much loot playing only 2 hours as someone playing 12 hours in the exact same system.

They are not going to put in a 'give all the things to Iamstryker' rule set. And removing magic find leaves one alternative....to kill WAY MORE THINGS, which is going to benefit people spending more time in game.

You are never ever going to balance your wealth to someone playing 6x's as much as you. Pathetic.

Are you arguing with yourself?

The map system is a great place for IIR/IIQ stats, agreed. I just dont see the problem with needing to trade character strength for higher output rewards. In the end, when things are pretty well balanced it is two paths to the same goal, you either kill more things faster, or less things for more reward per kill. Both situations create danger for the players, you are either pushing hard through the monsters with a strong character, or playing safer with a weaker character.

I am in total agreement that certain builds right now have a natural advantage in the play safer but slower category due to them being able to grab very high levels of magic find and benefitting from the play style their character is good at naturally without much of a trade off. These builds can be pretty easily adjusted to make them need to clear faster to maintain their current efficiency, taking them out of their comfort zone some.

Those builds are never going to clear as fast as builds designed around wiping out whole screens in one go. Removing magic find punishes people for choosing a slower safer play style. The slower builds currently having no draw back in efficiency punishes people playing a more reckless style.

Find the middle ground, in my opinion is reducing the rewards SOME for playing slower and safer, and still allow fast players to put on magic find gear and play safer areas if they choose.

And I very much like the idea that magic find can roll on jewelry especially. I could see limiting magic find on boots, gloves, and hats to unique items, but I dont really think it is necessary.

If jewelry is able to be too strong while still getting magic find, removing the 'all resist' mod would up how much of a trade off you have to make to get magic find on jewelry.

And saying melee cant wear any magic find stuff is a little hard for me to agree with, but if it literally is a problem with items like rat's nest, auresize, goldwyrm, magic find flasks (yay), and magic find jewelry in game, then perhaps use some MF scaling on a few keynodes like resolute technique or the master of the arena, or even some weapon specific nodes or an accuracy cluster, cap how much upscaling you can get from skill tree. Magic find AR/ES shield with less minion life and less spell power.

And for sure magic find support gems have a place in game, though if for some reason they need to be more balanced, adding a mana multiplier to them is a easy solution to add more conseqence for using them.

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gh0un wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

"

I suggest that we completely remove IIQ/IIR from gear, and completely move that mechanic to the map system, not just limiting it to item quantity.

Ok, and in the same time, we cut by half the DPS and Resistances of every single player in the game.

What would that achieve?
If you cut everyones dps and resistances by half then it is as if you hadnt changed anything at all.

That comment obviously originates from you having a MF character that opposes a change that removes MF from the game.
You are biased and made a stupid comment (that makes no sense) in order to defend your standpoint.

1) I don't have any MF char. I sometimes put full MF and kill Cruel Merveil (so hard with a level 74/81 ...) and sell every yellow. You can do that with any level 70 build, and probably faster than I do.
Check my account of poestatistic and see my 3 rangers, virtually same build (bow ranger, LA or ROA, I fucked Pluria's build and created Teraelle, then I tried Onslaught with Galonia). Thank you for your stupid biased comment.

2) Remove MF = we can focus on 100% DPS AND survivability. 6 mods per item, 3 for DPS and 3 for survivability, we could in theory create an ultimate gear set.

Don't you even thought about the tradeoff when you put MF stats instead of life/es/DPS ?

Thank you for being biased. You don't play MF (I don't), you want more loots (or less loots for other builds) and hide behind the mighty word "balance".

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Hovergame wrote:

Thank you for being biased. You don't play MF (I don't), you want more loots (or less loots for other builds) and hide behind the mighty word "balance".

You conspiracy theorists are funny. Somehow its ok to run a pure mf build all day in your eyes, but changing the balance of mf and running a character that would then have LESS overall mf is somehow a crime to you and is just a ploy to get more loot? How does that make any sense?

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iamstryker wrote:

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Hovergame wrote:

Thank you for being biased. You don't play MF (I don't), you want more loots (or less loots for other builds) and hide behind the mighty word "balance".

You conspiracy theorists are funny. Somehow its ok to run a pure mf build all day in your eyes, but changing the balance of mf and running a character that would then have LESS overall mf is somehow a crime to you and is just a ploy to get more loot? How does that make any sense?

His own post :

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That comment obviously originates from you having a MF character that opposes a change that removes MF from the game.
You are biased and made a stupid comment (that makes no sense) in order to defend your standpoint.

Next time, to not look too stupid, read the quote, kid. I copied his sentence, just to show how that type of "discussion" is useless. But you failed to understand, it proves how you cannot see further than your nose.

Now, do you think the devs don't try to balance the game ? When we listen to you, they just don't care. There are 4 big factors in this kind of games :
-Killspeed
-Survivability
-Better loots
-XP

Please, don't talk about the wonderful MF unkillable builds clearing the high levels maps fast : they are only existing in your dreams. You always have 2 ways to increase one of those factors :
-Killspeed : more DPS or lower level mobs
-Survivability : more HP/resistance or lower level mobs
-Better loots : more MF or higher level mobs
-XP : higher killspeed or higher better efficience (XP/hour)

Bsically, if you want to get XP AND Better loots, you need to increase your killspeed, fight high level mobs AND get more MF. Try that, and show us how long you live in a 70+ map. You could chose to fight lower level mobs, but then you'll drop mostly crappy items. You could try to lower your DPS and increase your survivability, but tough luck, your killspeed is too low to be efficient. The point is to find the most efficient way to kill fast, survive, getting more loots and XP.

But you're only talking for the sake of the wonderful "balance", where your way of playing is the good one and any different playstyle should be inferior. You're basically saying "I shouldn't bother of losing some DPS/Survivability to get more loots". Simply no.

Having to explain something like that just shows how clueless your are.


And now, let's talk about what happens if they remove MF : everybody will now be able to focus on only Survivability and DPS. Not really a problem ? Soon after that, you'll complain about everything being expensive and you'll ask for more loots. Cool, after nerfing the other playstyle, you're asking for a buff of your own playstyle, but you're only asking for "balance", isn't it ? Your playstyle is probably the best and anyhting else should be inferior.

And please, don't bother to quote this post and talk about conspiracy theories, you're just looking stupid.