Gameplay Help and Discussion - Remove MF completely from game - Forum

" heartpee wrote: " RushingService wrote: Reading through this thread, it sounds like the game you want is called Diablo 3. I suggest uninstalling path of exile immediately and go to your local computer store and purchase Diablo 3. Seriously though, all this talk about not needing mf... putting an auction house in... its all so friggen stupid. I enjoy the mf mechanic, it means i cant stack pure dps and fly through the game with little to no challenge and find all the greatest loot that day. I have to select gear carefully so i can manage surviving, with dps, and with mf. There is one flaw to the mf system that i see and that is the ability to multibox norm vaal or other bosses for mass amounts of uniques/currency orbs, the devs need to change the orb drop system and higher value orbs need to drop in higher difficulties only. In all honesty though, if you want an easy watered down game... do yourselves a favor and purchase and install Diablo 3... i think its what you are looking for. /e right now im at about 14k dps on my melee character, and have 118% iir/ 34 iiq (using quantity gem for bosses only) only using andvarius ring and aurseize gloves. i come back from lunaris runs with 2 full inventories of rares and sometimes uniques. when i kill piety by myself i get on average 5 rares when she dies. im working on stacking more iir/iiq as i noticed a huge improvement on my drops and i didnt give up any survivability just a tiny bit of dps. point is you dont need 6000000 mf for it to be efficient... pickup and andvarius ring and give up a bit of your dps to find better items... dont bitch and complain because you have to give up 1k dps that the whole mechanic should be thrown out because Diablo 3 came out with stupid paragon levels, and made the game so easy that you can max lvl in a week. Almost none of what you typed is relevant to the discussion. We're talking about whether or not it's fun in the first place to deal with an MF stat. Ease of acquisition will always be about the same whether the game rewards MF or killing speed/difficulty. If your sole argument for keeping MF is to prevent the game from being too easy, a far simpler solution is to make the game optionally harder. my argument is not black and white that it will be too easy, its removing a core mechanic means you need to stack nothing to get the best loot =/... so now you can just solely stack dps and faceroll the game... and sure make the game harder, then you have the masses complaining the game is too hard (ie diablo 3). they will never be able to please everybody and aside from turning this into diablo 3 i will continue to support them... but i feel removing mf from the game is the first step towards a new diablo 3... pretty soon you will all be bitching for an ah and then boom... great game will have gone to hell. and yes its fun to use mf... the whole point of it is to make you balance it with survivability and dps... not just stack as much dps as you can, faceroll the game, get all the best loot, and watch the game die within a year. do you honestly believe getting rid of iiq/iir is going to make a difference for the better?... i think its going to make the top 1%ers even richer =/... im happy poor folk who can tolerate a slow, squishy, high iiq/iir sporker can farm and make some currency to beef up the chars they have. i mean look at diablo 3... people who didnt farm the ah for 8 hour sessions sniping items and flipping didnt succeed or like the game. they need to rethink the mechanic and fix a few things, not get rid of it... gotta love todays society though, if its broke throw it the f*** out and get a new one. Last edited by RushingService#3299 on Aug 12, 2013, 8:40:47 PM	Posted by RushingService#3299 on Aug 12, 2013, 8:40:27 PM Quote this Post
If drop rates need to be really low because of the economy/trading then why does trading also need to suck so bad? Still waiting for trading to be upgraded. How long has open beta been going now? Standard Forever	Posted by iamstryker#5952 on Aug 12, 2013, 10:23:42 PM Quote this Post
" RushingService wrote: diablo 2 pre enigma was all sorc mfers, it was the only decent class for mfing because of teleport and easy runs to bosses. it wasnt until enigma that hdins became the favored class because of op dmg, survivability, and easy stack of mf. That still has absolutely nothing to do with how IIR or IIQ is balanced. That's a class/build balance issue just like some builds farms faster than others in PoE. It has NOTHING to do with the thing called IIR or IIQ and the fact that it didnt matter nearly as much in d2 as it does in PoE. You are saying that the reason someone doesnt understand this is because he didnt play d2 is simply false, because the system was very different. " RushingService wrote: ive only recently acquired a soul taker and a 6l... up until maybe a week ago i was using bor/fb build and was still the same survivability and same mf. i'm poor. And you know why youre poor? You chose to spend hours and hours of farming on a non viable farming build to buy expensive gear that still doesnt put you anywhere near the cheap farming builds out there. If you had leveled a low life sporker as your first character and stacked a ton of IIR and IIQ with cheap gear, which is easily doable, you would would be rich. And that just proves the point even more. " RushingService wrote: but yes, lets get rid of mf and just play builds doing 100k++ dps and one shotting everything in the game and find the best items, that sounds like a fun game. Roll HC then if you don't want glass cannons. Thats the way it has always been and thats the way it will always be. On softcore you have the privilige to dont give a shit. People who MF on softcore ARE glass cannons already. Except maybe people with a non fit mf build, like you as a melee. Also you keep mentioning you do a full lunaris run and end up with a full stash of rares. Do you even realize that an low life sporker can do a docks run in a few minutes and also end up with a full stash of rares? Your farming is inefficient and the sooner you learn that the more you will see the flaw in this system. Last edited by Eightkilo#0325 on Aug 13, 2013, 9:19:40 AM	Posted by Eightkilo#0325 on Aug 13, 2013, 8:19:20 AM Quote this Post
" Eightkilo wrote: I repeat. There is no dimishing returns on MF in PoE, so the more IIR and IIQ you stack, the better. That means you don't NEED more than 120 iir. But 360 would get you 3 times as much. You dont NEED more than 0 iir. But you dont get shit. You are wrong. I repeat. You are wrong. Patch 9.9 " Chris wrote: Diminishing returns now applies to the rate that Increased Item Rarity affects magic, rare and unique items (it affects the less common ones more). Increased Item Quantity stats now also have diminishing returns. This allows us to have higher initial values and lets us balance the extreme cases so that their rate of item gain is high but not abusive. Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt Domination/Nemesis T shirt Tempest/War Bands T shirt	Posted by reboticon#2775 on Aug 13, 2013, 9:04:34 AM Quote this Post
" reboticon wrote: " Eightkilo wrote: I repeat. There is no dimishing returns on MF in PoE, so the more IIR and IIQ you stack, the better. That means you don't NEED more than 120 iir. But 360 would get you 3 times as much. You dont NEED more than 0 iir. But you dont get shit. You are wrong. I repeat. You are wrong. Patch 9.9 " Chris wrote: Diminishing returns now applies to the rate that Increased Item Rarity affects magic, rare and unique items (it affects the less common ones more). Increased Item Quantity stats now also have diminishing returns. This allows us to have higher initial values and lets us balance the extreme cases so that their rate of item gain is high but not abusive. Even if that is the case, its not nearly as much as it was in d2. You will clearly see a huge difference in farming with 100iir and if youre farming with 400iir. Even if there is a diminishing return mechanism in place, it doesnt show. If I remember correctly, in d2 150 magic find was the most optimal for unique farming. The higher you go in this game, the better.	Posted by Eightkilo#0325 on Aug 13, 2013, 9:11:41 AM Quote this Post
I love farming, regardless of if you like it, I've got over 13 days played on my character that is solely a farmer. The diminished returns start strongly around 200-250% IIR from everything I've been able to put together. I have not found the diminishing point for IIQ. Again, I've taken several characters to 60 in onslaught, and I am able to get over 100IIR on them pretty easily. Without an Andvarius or Wondertrap. I don't try to progress with that sort of MF, but farm docks, ledge, fellshrine? It's very doable. It would be doable on 66 maps also with pack/magic monster modifiers. I wouldn't try it cursed with vulnerability or temp chains. If we are being honest with ourselves, MF isn't going anywhere. There is a reason this thread is over 100 pages without a dev response. You can learn to adapt or you can not. Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt Domination/Nemesis T shirt Tempest/War Bands T shirt	Posted by reboticon#2775 on Aug 13, 2013, 11:28:11 AM Quote this Post
" reboticon wrote: You can learn to adapt or you can not. You might be those fellas who thinks that a consumer can't have an effect. Well you're wrong. We can vote with our feet and wallets. At the moment my play time is 10-20% from what it was, due to MF. I like to more theorycraft and take part on the forum's conversations. Thing is that MF on gear is widely disliked among the community, and for devs to not to listen a large portion of the community would be a huge mistake. I have understood that GGG listens for its customer. In this case I indeed am not so sure... I know they want to make the game in their vision, but for the love of god, one has to be able to open up one's ears and eyes before shit hits the fan.	Posted by Omnivor3#3935 on Aug 13, 2013, 11:54:40 AM Quote this Post
MF is also serious disadvantage for melee. Right now (Especially in hardcore) melee players cannot sacrifice a single piece of gear for item quantity or item rarity, there are times where I can go an entire fellshrine run without getting a single rare item.	Posted by Brelm#2523 on Aug 13, 2013, 12:00:35 PM Quote this Post
" Omnivor3 wrote: You might be those fellas who thinks that a consumer can't have an effect. Well you're wrong. We can vote with our feet and wallets... Thing is that MF on gear is widely disliked among the community, and for devs to not to listen a large portion of the community would be a huge mistake. I have to disagree. MF is dislike by a vocal portion of the community. That part of the community managed to keep it all in one thread somehow, where as things like Desynch or the current map system get 5 threads a day. When the revolution occurs and MF is removed, how do all those consumers that spent months grinding for expensive MF gear and building characters around it feel? What is their reaction? You say you play 10-20% of what you used to play. Why? Because other people get better drops? How much do you think those other people play when their months of playing are wiped out overnight? I bet they play a lot less than 10-20% of what they played before. " Brelm wrote: MF is also serious disadvantage for melee. Right now (Especially in hardcore) melee players cannot sacrifice a single piece of gear for item quantity or item rarity, there are times where I can go an entire fellshrine run without getting a single rare item. As stated I've played Hardcore with Goldwyrm/Sadima/Aurseize. It is doable on Fellshrine merc. Regardless, that is much more a problem with Melee as a whole rather than MF. Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt Domination/Nemesis T shirt Tempest/War Bands T shirt Last edited by reboticon#2775 on Aug 13, 2013, 12:44:07 PM	Posted by reboticon#2775 on Aug 13, 2013, 12:42:35 PM Quote this Post
" reboticon wrote: I have to disagree. MF is dislike by a vocal portion of the community. That part of the community managed to keep it all in one thread somehow, where as things like Desynch or the current map system get 5 threads a day. Desync and MF are completely in different categories. I'll explain why. Desync causes rage, after which there will be a rant post on forums to fix desync. Therefor we have so many threads about desync. MF on the other hand, is slowly accruing discontent towards the mechanic. It doesn't cause rage, it causes fatigue and annoyance among players, that is why we have only one huge post with full of meaningful and intellectual discussion about mechanic. I probably at somepoint need to make a signature about everything what I've said in this thread so I don't have to repeat it. But about the removal of MF edit: oops, wrote desync, meant MF and the people who have grinded their expensive MF-gear, there is a simple solution: Make new 4 month league without MF. Problem solved. It will also show whether people like it or not as GGG will have clear numbers about people who whether play on "non-MF on gear" league. The reason why I have played less because I had gotten sick to grind with my sporker. Which eventually died to temple piety, for the reasons which I explained in my first post in this thread: "Just moments ago I died to multiproj temple piety with my MF sporker, and frankly I don't even care, I was already sick to stomach that character. I wanted excitement for the boring farming, and I got it. Now do I have enough dough to make an actually a character which I enjoy to play? No. Do I feel like starting a new MF character? No. Do I feel like taking a break from the game for somewhile? Yes. Will I? I don't know as PoE and its theorycrafting is SO fun. But the harsh truth is I need to make a new MFer before I can play the character with which I actually want to play. And I think I'm not up to it, yet." " reboticon wrote: As stated I've played Hardcore with Goldwyrm/Sadima/Aurseize. It is doable on Fellshrine merc. Regardless, that is much more a problem with Melee as a whole rather than MF. Here we again get to the bottom of the situation... It shouldn't be that one should farm fellshrine/sarns/docks to gain wealth with a minimum risk. It should happen in MAPS! Where there actually would be meaningful risk/reward. Last edited by Omnivor3#3935 on Aug 13, 2013, 6:47:10 PM	Posted by Omnivor3#3935 on Aug 13, 2013, 3:03:21 PM Quote this Post