Remove MF completely from game

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Omnivor3 wrote:

But about the removal of desync and the people who have grinded their expensive MF-gear, there is a simple solution: Make new 4 month league without MF. Problem solved. It will also show whether people like it or not as GGG will have clear numbers about people who whether play on "non-MF on gear" league.

I have no problem with a new league with "non-MF" gear. That's very different, though, than what a lot of people in this thread are wanting.

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Omnivor3 wrote:

Here we again get to the bottom of the situation... It shouldn't be that one should farm fellshrine/sarns/docks to gain wealth with a minimum risk. It should happen in MAPS! Where there actually would be meaningful risk/reward.

Honestly, this is a pet peeve of mine. You've run sporker so I'm guessing you are aware, Sporkers can't stack 100q/450r and go run temple piety. There seems to be a huge misconception about that for a lot of players. They can stack huge MF and go farm fellshrine/sarn/docks/lunaris. They can run Temple and get away with SOME MF, more than average, but it isn't the ridiculous numbers people claim when farming. They can also stack huge MF in a GROUP with cull, but EVERYONE benefits from that.

It sounds like what YOU want is an increase in drop rates. I think most everyone wants that. Increase in droprates != removing MF mechanic from game.

Also, I appreciate you being able to have a reasonable discussion without this devolving into name calling. It's a welcomed change from most threads around here.

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reboticon wrote:

I have no problem with a new league with "non-MF" gear. That's very different, though, than what a lot of people in this thread are wanting.

I'm just offering a middle ground between absolute demolish between MF and preserving it as a mechanic. And my solution would be for benefit of all. But still MF needs some refining, if there would be or wouldn't be MF and non-MF leagues.
And for the non-MF league, the challenge should be incorporated to Maps. The MF gear in the non-MF league would be the gear with which you are able to survive the worst map mods. Thus you need to balance it between dps and res/armor/hp. This would be alot more intuitive than just to try stack MF.

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reboticon wrote:

It sounds like what YOU want is an increase in drop rates. I think most everyone wants that. Increase in droprates != removing MF mechanic from game.

The increase in drop rates of course is mandatory change if MF would be removed, so basically yeah, that is exactly what I want. But it should only be a slight increase, like 50%IIR and 20-30%IIQ, but I believe the devs would find a suitable number. ANd I only wish this if MF is removed.(or the new league is made, where the changes would of course only apply there)

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reboticon wrote:

Also, I appreciate you being able to have a reasonable discussion without this devolving into name calling. It's a welcomed change from most threads around here.

This thread all in all has been fairly good discussion, apart from few exceptions. This is what we need! And not petty name calling which leads to nowhere.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, forgot to answer this

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reboticon wrote:

Honestly, this is a pet peeve of mine. You've run sporker so I'm guessing you are aware, Sporkers can't stack 100q/450r and go run temple piety. There seems to be a huge misconception about that for a lot of players. They can stack huge MF and go farm fellshrine/sarn/docks/lunaris. They can run Temple and get away with SOME MF, more than average, but it isn't the ridiculous numbers people claim when farming. They can also stack huge MF in a GROUP with cull, but EVERYONE benefits from that.

Temple piety and crematorium are probably the only one's where you are screwed as a Sporker. But I was able to stack a decent amount of IIQ/IIr and run any other map fairly easily. This was my gear. It is not great, but only because I didn't want to dedicate any more currency for that character.



With that gear it was barely overcapped in resists. And I'm a sporker... so Yeah. My IIR is something like 150% and IIQ 21%(with culling more). Imagine getting somewhere similar IIQ/IIR with a Blood Magic based character which doesn't have access to Purity. Not gonna happen, unless you stay and farm sarn/docks/lunaris so you don't need to cap all resists. It probably would have been more lucrative for me to make my sporker low-life and use the 100% IIR boots and farm docks. Where's the fun in that?

This text might be a bit incoherent, but I hope you understand what I'm going after. Some builds are simply more powerful for farming, and the builds are CI/Low-Life.

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Omnivor3 wrote:

Imagine getting somewhere similar IIQ/IIR with a Blood Magic based character which doesn't have access to Purity. Not gonna happen, unless you stay and farm sarn/docks/lunaris so you don't need to cap all resists.

My ROA ranger (blood magic) was able to do better without any real problem. Do you realize that your helm has ZERO resist, your Sapphire has only 55 resists and your boots 36 ? 91 resists For a wonderful total of 11 iiq and 19 iir ..... My Goldrim already gives me 96 resists and 10 iir.

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Hovergame wrote:

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Omnivor3 wrote:

Imagine getting somewhere similar IIQ/IIR with a Blood Magic based character which doesn't have access to Purity. Not gonna happen, unless you stay and farm sarn/docks/lunaris so you don't need to cap all resists.

My ROA ranger (blood magic) was able to do better without any real problem. Do you realize that your helm has ZERO resist, your Sapphire has only 55 resists and your boots 36 ? 91 resists For a wonderful total of 11 iiq and 19 iir ..... My Goldrim already gives me 96 resists and 10 iir.

Did you play in maps? And please if you can, post your gear :)

The thing is, that I was able to sacrifice a lot of defences from gear because talent tree provided me resists so much. And goldrim for MFing is a lot worse than my helm. My setup was made for mapping, to have enough ES and Resists.

So hoping for a change to the IIR/IIQ system. Without mf gear, it doesn't drop shit. My friend didn't like this game, because he said it literally never dropped anything at all while he was leveling. Not saying I agree with him 100%. But after playing without mf for awhile, I notice how little rare and uniques drop. Uniques I can understand doesnt drop every 5 mins, but even rares. Most of the rares are shit anyways, and without mf I get maybe 1 rare each map. Might be 2-3 if im lucky.

It feels so odd sometimes to play my non magic find guys. Earlier today I had done some maps and then decided to run piety just for the heck of it since I didn't really have much time left to play. I killed piety and all she dropped was magic items and whites. Not even one rare?

Maybe I shouldn't have been surprised but that just feels bad to me.

Another solution if reducing MF values on existing items is not an option due to technical stuff:

1. Make IIQ from maps Additive with gear instead of Multiplicative.

2. Buff IIQ from maps by 50%

3. Same idea as before, make rare maps have IIR as well as IIQ.

would enjoy a change to mf, i agree some builds just cannot run mf stats and compete with others.

Back in CB where iir/iiq was also on weapons, chest and belts i didn´t had those problems i´m now having. /shrug

Before I succumbed to the cancer that is mf I built like 10 80ish characters but after the damn sporker I hate playing any of the others even though most if not all are actually a lot more fun to play but the drops are nonexistent. In order for mf to be balanced it needs to be in relation to killing speed (everyone needs survivability though I admit clearing speed actually helps survivability too). If someone can clear content twice as fast as someone else they get twice as many items in the same time and clearing twice as fast is a serious speed improvement. Problem is that magic find can get you even 8 times as much valuable gear. No matter what build you make you won't ever be able to 8 times as fast as an average build and even if some buggy combination of skills allowed for it you still wouldn't be able to pick the actual items without killing that speed.

The only people that get to play builds they like and not lose out on the fun of having decent gear are people that are partied with culling magic finders. Yet somehow a lot of people do not have the time the friends or the disposition to keep a full time party with a mf character so they solo and when you solo you end up with the damned sporker.

Solving the mf problem by severely reducing the numbers outside of map mods will also deal with part of the imbalance of party play versus solo play which are without number right now and one of my big pet peeves with an otherwise amazing game.