Lioneye's Glare - Possibility for a nerf on an overpowered item?
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SL4Y3R wrote:
Ghoun its not elemental :)
Would assume its probably like a lvl 20 ice shot or something. It is a bow after all. Whenever you do face her, send me a pm. It's one fun fight.
while it's off topic, arrow dodging + 20q enfeeble > piety. Providing you didn't pick up that shitter keystone IR that should only be used until you can get better gear.
-ign rptd (Hardcore) _riptide (default and that's an underscore too)
Last edited by riptid3#6233 on Apr 14, 2013, 4:39:54 PM
I don't know if Lioneye's is overpowered, but I definitely think it isn't a good thing for the health of the game.
Pre-Lioneye's, the dominant ranger build was this Keystone-grabbing, tree-spanning monstrosity that grabbed Unwavering Stance, Blood Magic, Static Blows... and most importantly Resolute Technique. Rather than playing with the rather weak accuracy system, it dodged the question entirely.
Naturally, builds that wanted to actually critically hit had to actually commit to accuracy, so not everyone went the RT route.
What Lioneye's Glare represents is not a DPS increase; it's clear other bows do more damage when they hit. What is Lioneye's Glare? The ability to respec a crapload of passive points and/or gear affixes (you might only have a little of one, but if you do you have a lot of the other) into more yet more life, while still dealing critical strikes. It's hidden, but Lioneye's Glare is a little like a mini-Kaom's that still has sockets; you take it, and a few Orbs of Regret later you have much more life than before.
How I feel about it is that Lioneye's Glare almost closes the trap. Unless you're going Crit Dagger Shadow or something, there's really no reason to mess around with accuracy. Use spells, RT, or this unique bow instead.
I'd probably be okay with LG if it actually had Resolute Technique instead of the ability it has. Then it would be a build enabler of sorts for people that don't want to travel all the way over there, and crit bow builds would still be (old-school) crit bow builds.
All this does is expose how massively nonsensical having accuracy in the game is, especially when it isn't even fundamentally applied the same. Rangers don't need to spec into accuracy because they can just use a lioneye's. Melee builds that start on the left side of the tree are just going to grab RT since they don't want to bother with accuracy, and they're unlikely to get much crit anyway.
The only builds that really need to fiddle around with accuracy at all are crit shadows and wanders, and it's no surprise that both of them are considered among the most gear dependent builds out there.
Having accuracy in the game basically means that you either grab RT, or your build requires an assload of money.
Not to mention the nonsensicality of monsters that are able to dodge arrows but not a slow-moving fireball.
If it were up to me:
You could evade spells. Fuck that slow-moving fireball. Perhaps spell damage would be boosted to compensate.
Each attribute would grant flat accuracy, but with specific weapon types. Intelligence, for instance, would increase accuracy with spells and "caster weapons" -- wands, staves, daggers, and scepters. It's very likely spell accuracy would get a larger flat bonus than weapon accuracy.
Resolute Technique would be reworded "Your chance to hit with melee attacks is doubled. You never deal Critical Strikes." Kind of like Arrow Dodging in reverse. This would prevent ranged from taking the keystone, as well as making evading melee attacks difficult, yet still possible. For PvE, hitting 48% chance to hit is silly easy, so it would still essentially be a melee auto-hit keystone.
Dexterity would grant a flat evasion bonus. This way, just like Strength, Dexterity is always useful. Additionally, everyone having at least some evasion rating in PvP would eliminate "prisoner's dilemma" type situations ("Should I really take Resolute Technique? My opponent probably has no evasion... I could keep my critical strikes this way.").
Dexterity would get some new percent-scaling bonus. I don't know what. 0.1% attack speed perhaps? That might be too good. I don't know. But something.
The accuracy formula would be totally reworked, with the ^0.8 diminishing returns cap on evasion removed. Without the possibility of scaling evasion through Dexterity, the threat of massively evasive characters isn't great enough to justify that part of the formula; the flat bonus would only do so much.
Future drops of Lioneye's Glare would have "Double Chance to Hit," similar to the Resolute Technique change. It would still be an amazingly good bow. Perhaps the legacy version would be left alone; perhaps it would be nerfed; hard to say.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Apr 14, 2013, 5:21:03 PM
Nerf silverbranch, which people use to powerlevel to 30, but leave lioneye's, which every single bow user either has or dreams to have, as it is. Way to go.
Nerf silverbranch, which people use to powerlevel to 30, but leave lioneye's, which every single bow user either has or dreams to have, as it is. Way to go.
Read the thread. See you're wrong. I'll trade mine for an uber top tier ele bow all day.
Read the thread. See you're wrong. I'll trade mine for an uber top tier ele bow all day.
You really believe that this is a strong argument as to why lioneye's is not broken? Honestly?
Yeah, you'd trade it for a better one. Great. Problem is those 'better ones' can be counted with one hand.
But they exist. Meaning this is not a BiS unique. Meaning no nerf is required.
It probably is best-in-slot, because it lets you take more life nodes. I already explained how.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
But they exist. Meaning this is not a BiS unique. Meaning no nerf is required.
Again, do you really think that this is a strong argument? Just because there are a handful of better bows suddenly lioneye's stops being strong? lol
And that they shouldnt exist beacuse they're good is your argument?
See? And when did he even say that lioneye isnt strong..... ?
I've never been sure why people want to nerf a item in a Action RPG like this when it has nothing to do with them at all. Is it so OP that you can 1 shoot everything? No. Is it so good that you dont need any survivability? No. Does it make you a EPING god in the game? NO.
Beacuse thats how PoE works. You cant faceroll continent with good gear. You always have to be on your toes. And all those with the argument that there is a handful of bows thats better then lioneye, but yeah, there is only VERY VERY few of the LG's thats perfect rolled or close to it. Example, 56-256 min-max dmg and 1,69 attack speed? = 263.64 dps. Wich is VERY easy to obtain from a thicket or w/e. And a perfect one, is about 325-330 dps. Hm. Yeah.
And like many others complain that it gives you 1 more passive, well thats the thing about it. Thats probably the only thing that makes it good. But in some cases bad. Is it good to crit with LA chaining around 100 mobs with ele reflect OR now that they introduced lightning thorns for ranged aswell. Is that good? Well, some 2 shot themself with 85+ resist on lightning thorns already. WITH RT as a passive and 4k hp.
So crit in that senario? Hmm. Yeah thought as much.
When a banker jumps out of a window, jump after him, that's where the money is.
Nerf silverbranch, which people use to powerlevel to 30, but leave lioneye's, which every single bow user either has or dreams to have, as it is. Way to go.
Read the thread. See you're wrong. I'll trade mine for an uber top tier ele bow all day.
yes obviously, dummy, it's not that it's unbeatable it's that it's too good
A rare ele bow with better stats is a hell of a lot rarer than a Lioneye and also can't be chanced with anywhere close to the consistency that Lioneye can. The point is that it's a static non-changing item that is better than the vast majority of rares but it has zero drawbacks. Almost every unique in the game is a UNIQUE, i.e. it has drawbacks and is meant to be built around. Kaoms has no sockets etc etc. This has been very well done in PoE, for the most part.
D2 was boring post-LoD minus the rares-only pvp community, for me at least, because EVERY SINGLE unique and EVERY SINGLE RUNEWORD was better than 99.99% of the equivalent base item rares. Yes you can find some fools ccbq blah blah whatever, but .00001% of the population will have those, and anyways in a PvE-centric game like PoE it's like saying someone would use a rare zerker instead of a BotD. The only time it would matter is PvP, for PvE interests nothing will ever beat the static-non-changing-always-the-same-items. If you don't get these terms, it's like asking why anyone would use a handsaw instead of a bandsaw if the cost barrier was the same. It results in an army of clones using the same boring cookie cutter gear.
Whether or not you agree or disagree with that as a game design goal has nothing to do with whether or not it occurs.
Last edited by HonkHonkBeep#4053 on Apr 15, 2013, 1:25:26 PM
