Lioneye's Glare - Possibility for a nerf on an overpowered item?

riptid3: i am simply pointing out that you are addressing the flaw of tr-elemental dmg bow by referring to use additional curses. Most of the time projectile weakness is just not viable at all due to too much damage output + reflect ((I duo with an EK usually, and on so many occasions he almost killed himself with proj weakness, also conductivity is not required btw). You also fail to mention that projectile weakness also work well with LG as well btw, but using a curse to make up for a flaw of a bow is conceptually flawed.

not sure why people are arguing about blackgleam, yes it increase damage dramatically with physical bow, but it is just not viable at all. Losing out 100 hp + other suffixes is not worth it.

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Lyralei wrote:

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I didn't forget about overcaping resists, but over capping them by like 30 already with crazy end gear is not too difficult.

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gh0un wrote:

Now lets say you have a 200 physical damage bow.
With my build, those 200 physical damage are increased to 500 due to iron grip and RoA.
My perfect blackgleam converts 50% of that to fire damage.
Now those 250 fire damage scale with my elemental damage passives (i pretty much only have elemental dmg passives except for iron grip), and due to more weapon elemental dmg support, [...]

it doesn't work that way actually.
converting to elemental damage does not make the bonuses multiplicative.

you have 200 physical dmg.
using RoA, it makes it 150 ( here, this one is multiplicative ).
now, the increase dmg maybe be ( let's say for 400 STR ) 80 ( from STR ) + 50 ( from RoA ).

You have then 150*(1+1.3) = 345 physical dmg.
Now, if you convert 50% of it through lightning arrow, with let's say 200%increased elemental dmg, you will get :

( 150/2 )*(1+1.3) + ( 150/2 )*( 1+1.3+2 ) = 172.5 + 322.5 = 495.
And not (345/2) + (345/2)*(1+2).

I have no clue of how you got 500 dmg from RoA and Iron Grip btw, there are bonuses that I must be missing.
The only multiplicative support gems I know are concentrated area of effect ( that you may be using I guess ), melee dmg on full life and melee physical dmg.
Maybe there are other one, I don't pretend knowing everything in the game ofc, but I don't get how you can reach 500 from 200 with just RoA and Iron grip.

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gh0un wrote:

And you were talking about piety in the temple map being a problem with blackgleam?

Temple Piety =/= Shrine Piety. Temple one is piss easy.

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Fruz wrote:

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Lyralei wrote:

[...]

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gh0un wrote:

Now lets say you have a 200 physical damage bow.
With my build, those 200 physical damage are increased to 500 due to iron grip and RoA.
My perfect blackgleam converts 50% of that to fire damage.
Now those 250 fire damage scale with my elemental damage passives (i pretty much only have elemental dmg passives except for iron grip), and due to more weapon elemental dmg support, [...]

it doesn't work that way actually.
converting to elemental damage does not make the bonuses multiplicative.

I have no clue of how you got 500 dmg from RoA and Iron Grip btw, there are bonuses that I must be missing.

Yes you are right about the multiplicative vs additive aspect, completely forgot about that in this calculation.
You basically just get the 150% physical damage increase added on top of your elemental dmg increase, basically doubling my personal "elemental" damage increase from 150% to 300% (and then multiplied by 1.87 due to more elemental damage support), which is still a lot. (now i get why i had so much higher values in this particular calculation).

As for the 500 physical damage.
I did not include the damage effectiveness of RoA since the damage effectiveness also applies if i were to use an elemental bow (or quiver).
Any value is basically lowered to 75% of its original value, regardless of whether it is physical or elemental.
For the purpose of figuring out whether blackgleam or a regular eledmg quiver is the better one for RoA, the 75% damage effectiveness is irrelevant and you can completely ignore it.
If i come to the conclusion (through calculations) that blackgleam amounts to (for calculations sake) 100 flat elemental damage, then i would have to lower it to 75 flat elemental damage.
If an elemental damage quiver has 10 flat elemental damage on it, i would have to lower it to 7.5 elemental damage.
I can completely ignore the damage effectiveness when it comes to comparing items (or rather, physical vs elemental) with each other, since everything is affected by the 75% multiplier.


As for the shrine piety, i dont see how a resist quiver increases your max resistances.
The 400 life on a perfect rare quiver (after % life increases) are fine and dandy but going from 6400 to 6800 makes almost no difference in such an encounter (a boss that hits so hard that you basically have to be close to 100% resistances).
Anyways, give me the shrine map, ill do her with 98% lightning resist.
I know that she can only be in lightning form in phase one, and if necessary i will just kill all portals and leave her in that form indefinitely in phase two and facetank her with 98% lightning res.
I doubt she can even scratch me.
I could potentially even go triple res flask (ruby, sapphire and topaz) and be fine with flask charges because the shrine piety has minions.

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As for the shrine piety, i dont see how a resist quiver increases your max resistances.

overcapng is meant to prevent resistances reduction from flamability / etc ....
I think it was never about incrasing the max res.

( I wast just asking about the 500 coz it seemed irealistic to me, so I was just curious. and yes, the dmg reduction is not really relevant for comparing bows, I was just trying to figure out how you'd get to 500 lol ).

By the way, in regards tot the quiver. The missing dps comes from the 36% effecting wrath, anger, and all other elemental dmg gear.

Also resists only matter to a degree. I've fought shrine piety several times. Good luck on keeping her in her first form. 85% resists, her ice shot does between 3.5-4k dmg. Don't know what % of that is physical, but yeah. It hurts.

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Fruz wrote:

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As for the shrine piety, i dont see how a resist quiver increases your max resistances.

overcapng is meant to prevent resistances reduction from flamability / etc ....
I think it was never about incrasing the max res.

Well i dont have any problems with ele curses because i am over max res anyways.
On top of that i am using enduring cry with 4 endurance charges, which grants me another 20% on top of my over max res.
On top of that i have a 30% sapping of resistance life flask, that adds another 30% on the already above cap resistances.
I switch that flask in for the innate "elemental weakness" mod on maps.

And if you really wanna be safe you can still use this .

Anyways, having chaos res on the quiver would be real nice :))
Fortunately chaos damage mob types are all very fragile and die to a single shot of my RoA, even if i use enfeeble on them instead of ele weakness, which basically reduces their damage to ashes against 6400 health.

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Also resists only matter to a degree. I've fought shrine piety several times. Good luck on keeping her in her first form. 85% resists, her ice shot does between 3.5-4k dmg. Don't know what % of that is physical, but yeah. It hurts.

If it is really that hard to take the portals down (which i doubt, i can probably 1 shot them, but since i cant test it, i wont lean out the window too much), i would probably just carry 1 of each resistance flask.
With that i can get 98% resistance on demand, at which point her damage is reduced to ashes.
Going from 85% to 98% is basically cutting the damage into less than 1/7.5 of the original damage.
Lets say she deals 10k elemental damage. With 85% reduction, that would be lowered to 1500.
98% reduction would lower that value to 200.
1500 / 200 = 7.5
You basically take 1/7.5 of the original damage.
You say she deals 4k damage against 85% resistances? Well with 98% you only take 533 per shot.
That sounds more than tankable.

One of each flask would mean that you have to avoid a specific form if that flask is empty (until you can refill it at minions), which shouldnt be too hard.
Anyways i think i could kill her rather quickly anyways.

Just out of curiosity, how much armor do you have?
Just wondering whether she deals a big portion of her damage as physical.

yolo

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Moosifer wrote:

This "X works therefore we should nerf it" shit really needs to go. There's very few things that feel OP atm while most things feel very UP, how about we bring everything up first?

This. There are like 3 or so things in this game in dire need of a nerf, and that bow is not one of them.

OMG LIZ NIRF THIS IS HAS 7L AND 405+ DPS

Really? Thats how stupid you sound like.

Marohi is a excellent weapon. Not even close to BiS, but very good in many builds.
Lioneye nerf? Sure. Destroy those Uniques thats whort even having and using.

I have nothing new to say to this thread thats already said. Rares can roll alot better.
You really have no clue how ele dmg works or why static blows are so good. Atleast from what I've seen.

Like some one stated, RT can even be whort considering if you want to be extra safe with a Lioneye due to the crits that occurs.

Read up on Elemental damage and how the mechanic works, and why the "always hit" isnt really that important for a LA ranger when you can just use RT. And 80+ mana? Oh noes. Many just goes 7+ auras and sockets blood magic with their spells and just use the presious mana for % auras.

Or just uses blood magic passive.

Why dont you whine on a more lol fact then, that you can run 6+ auras or something more relevant.
Then nerfing a unique that isnt game breaking, and if it was "game breaking" in a action rpg would that matter really? I've seen alot of rare bows out there being alot better then a lioneye. ALOT.

Even some have linked better ones in this thread.

I'm not sure if OP is trolling. Or just really want to nerf a medicore (IT REALLY IS) bow