Lioneye's Glare - Possibility for a nerf on an overpowered item?
" That's because most people think OMG WTF LIONSEYE IS DA BEST. Just like idiots thought LOH > life steal in that other game. It took them months to realize what people were saying just weeks into the game. Just wait until people start trying Phys builds without elemental conversion and people have a better understanding of mechanics. You'll see them start rolling harbingers. I expect people to start rolling 2 handers as well. " You're talking about converting to elemental and then bring up curses? I guess 75 light(or fire) res + innate light resist + aura or curse immune don't exist. I suppose rain of arrows sucks and doesn't always hit. You're arguing through a really narrow scope here. -ign rptd (Hardcore) _riptide (default and that's an underscore too) Last edited by riptid3 on Apr 13, 2013, 1:21:28 AM
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Bring up the 230, which was just elemental dmg, + 30 from what's converted. So 260 to 280, but I don't lose a quiver and life.
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True, I even forgot the phys part of the thicet lol.
So one of the best elemental bow of the server has like arround the same efficiency ( with the loss of other stats ) as a nice rolled LG ( with a blackgleam ). And your thicket ele works only with elemental build, where LG works with both elemental and physical builds. And there is still the better-than-resolute-technique bonus. " maybe But for the moment, the highest lvl players of the server ( like gankstaboo or sth ) use LG or maybe thicket triple ele. And they are really rich for some, I'm pretty sure they didn't do what they did randomly, and they know what they use. " WTH are you takling about ? Oo I was saying elemental build because they are usually using BM / iron grip / static blows, and put some more point to get to resolute technique then. And because elemental builds are what we are talking about right now too -__-. RoA is an attack ... not a spell. I've not used it for a very long time, but still I don't see why it could never miss. EDIT : still trying to understand what you answered/said and ..... just no. and I'm the one bringing up curses by the way Oo ? just wtf seriously. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz on Apr 13, 2013, 1:41:50 AM
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" I brought up projectile weakness(because it's good and mitigates the advantage lionseye has) and you mentioned something about curse immunity mobs. So I pointed out that with an elemental build you're crippled by dbl resist curse immune (or purity) mobs. If your build was more focused on physical dmg, where you would actually use a GOOD(i.e. not lionseye) physical bow like ghoun/slayer pointed out that wouldn't be an issue. Because the top end damage would penetrate more armor than you converting it to fire. (Even a physical thicket > lionseye when factoring in armor) If the build were focused on elemental, you'd use a perfectly rolled tri ele thicket. In any case lionseye is okay for either scenario but great at none. Also RoA does not miss and yes it's an attack. Which immediately makes any RoA build not even consider Lionseye unless that's all they can get. -ign rptd (Hardcore) _riptide (default and that's an underscore too) Last edited by riptid3 on Apr 13, 2013, 2:06:19 AM
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As someone who's tried a RoA with a lioneyes and a high tri-ele thicket, I would not trade a tri-ele thicket for a lioneyes. You get a higher calculated DPS (RoA doesn't miss) and you notice it in your clear speed. Elemental damage scales better, blackgleam or not.
In short, yes, there are better bows than LG, and probably by a fair margin. I imagine a perfectly rolled bow (for RoA at least) would look something like 36% weapon eleemntal, 11-115 lightning, 41-72 fire, double crit rolls, and a perfect IAS roll. That bow would definitely be far, far better than a lioneye's in the current gamestate. |
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The only people that argue against Lionglare are (usually) ROA users. I am not certain if the skill is intended to be never miss, nor do I care. I have tried ROA, still prefer LA over ROA by a mile. Regardless, using Lionglare results in less restriction in terms of build (not to mention easier acquisition). I chuckled at AthenaUS's comment, a Lionglare on HC go for as low as 10-15 exalts now, whereas a decently rolled tri-elemental thicket will go for a ton (the best one sold for 60 exalts when Lionglare was only around 20-25 exalts). If you are simply looking for tri-elemental bow then you lose out on all other stats, getting a good tri-elemental bow isn't as easy as you think. That aside, for LA users, to use a tri-elemental bow require high accuracy in order to become fully effective. Right away, you are sacrificing DPS/Survivability mods on your other gear for accuracy. If you intended to use resolute technique, crit chance and crit multiplier becomes ineffective, which limits your gear even further. Also, I don't think you guys take into the consideration that crit-on-hit applies elemental effect instantly, which is something a LG user can abuse. Finally, please dont bring DPS into the discussion, we all know how terrible the tooltip is in this game. Take Pam's ROA's tooltip for example, it is roughly 19000-20000, but in practice (from what I have seen) his clear time is similar to other LA-rangers (not to mention, even he is using a LG ;)). The only important factor is IAS, DPS from the character screen imo.
edit: not here to argue that LG is overpowered, but simply to point out it is a extremely good item, perhaps BIS for 99.9% of the population, but like others have indicated, it is replaceable. If you want dev to change an unique, I would start at Kaom's Heart ^^ Last edited by PuppetYuber on Apr 13, 2013, 8:19:57 AM
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While I don't agree that Lioneye's is OP, this whole conversation is just silly. It's been introduced by a category of player who has forgotten that one should be able to actually win a game. I mean, seriously. Stop this nerf discussion for rare items. Lioneye's and Kaom's both.
Last edited by Courageous on Apr 13, 2013, 8:50:16 AM
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So much fail in the original post. You know nothing of how bows work. Paper DPS may be higher on a LG but the top end bows utterly rape LG. Why would anyone with half a right mind use a LG + Blackgleam? You lose so much stats from a GG quiver that the justification isn't even close by a mile.
Source: 89 HC Ranger. Last edited by Lyralei on Apr 13, 2013, 9:12:09 AM
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" Projectile weakness removes the need for accuracy on gear and it scales with all of your damage all the time. It also works for most casters. Rather than just providing 12%~ more shock chance and 44% lightning dmg. But I agree, nerfing powerful items is a bad idea anyway. We're all suppose to be overpowered. Who cares if this next guy is more OP, as long as we are gods too. I'm just stating that lionseye isn't even powerful enough to be nerfed. I consider it like IR, good enough to get by until you can get better gear. -ign rptd (Hardcore) _riptide (default and that's an underscore too) Last edited by riptid3 on Apr 13, 2013, 9:39:53 AM
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" Based on that, someone could also point out elemental weakness can make up for all the damage loss from a top-tier tri-elemental bow? It also works for most casters. We are strictly comparing two bows + how it will affect rest of the equips / skill points optimization. |
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