No respec options? No thanks.

"

BrotherLaz wrote:

Would you kindly read my f#ing post? OF COURSE it's about challenge, that's the whole argument of the anti-respec crowd.

Ok, lets suggest just the opposite others had said: make a dedicated "Casuals" league where respec is allowed.
Could have their own ladder and maybe pvp, separated by the others.
Let THEM compete among themselves, but without meaning for the rest...

"

BrotherLaz wrote:

Would you kindly read my f#ing post? OF COURSE it's about challenge, that's the whole argument of the anti-respec crowd.

Yes I read your "f#ing" post, you didn't read the thread however.

There's nothing challenging about not having respecs, copying a build from the forums or planning a build instead of mindlessly assigning talents is not a challenge. It's not about that at all.

Just stop assuming this is a "casuals vs hardcore" debate and read the damn thread.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

Not really. Players which dont enjoy to concern with all (or at least the most) aspects of a game like this, could not be expected to be the reliable base of the game on a longer term, their interest will mainly be more short-termed, trial-and-leave... and only the fewest of them may spend money on it... there are enough potential players among them, I'd say.

If you not focus on the most attracted community, you may loose all.

with all or most aspects? no one is arguing about other aspects here. There is clear single demand.. let players respec their character in way they want... Game is fun..blowing monsters asses is cool. gear is well done.. zone are nice..crafting is good too, skill customization is great ..etc. .. but this gigantinc skill system is offering so much fun and experimentation.. But not everyone like rerolling .. So you are saying everyone who don't like rerolling but otherwise like the game is not part of reliable base of the game? Sorry but If something like this would said someone in my company and try to say this publicly, I would fire him immediately without questions.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

How do you expect the relation between casuals and oldschoolers in D2 to be actually? The real addicteds ("oldschoolers?")keep it alive - even now.

These oldschoolers as you call them were asking for respect system for YEARS. There were clear demand and requested very often on official blizzard forums for respec system.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

No they dont, as they demand the game to be a more-casuals type - or full-casuals in the end, cause this wouldnt stop... Even if there are games that proves, to set on casuals mainly, could work, doesnt give the right to demand that style for every other game too.

of course ..Developer can try risk it and stick with their words and ignore this big part of players but I believe this will cause much lower playerbase. Again..noone is saying there shouldn't be league for competitive/hardcore players.. But there should be something for the other group too. Cutting your potential playerbase by half is pretty stupid move.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

There is no real way to 100% please them all - maybe beside Blizzards actual way... and even if (what I assume) D3 will impress a lot of people (its what they are harderst work on) - nobody can say, how long this will be, how long it will be able to attract others than pure casuals.

yes..there is no way to 100% please them all..but there is way to please the majority. (both anti-respec and pro-respec players)

"

ManiaCCC wrote:

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

Not really. Players which dont enjoy to concern with all (or at least the most) aspects of a game like this, could not be expected to be the reliable base of the game on a longer term, their interest will mainly be more short-termed, trial-and-leave... and only the fewest of them may spend money on it... there are enough potential players among them, I'd say.

If you not focus on the most attracted community, you may loose all.

with all or most aspects? no one is arguing about other aspects here. There is clear single demand.. let players respec their character in way they want... Game is fun..blowing monsters asses is cool. gear is well done.. zone are nice..crafting is good too, skill customization is great ..etc. .. but this gigantinc skill system is offering so much fun and experimentation.. But not everyone like rerolling .. So you are saying everyone who don't like rerolling but otherwise like the game is not part of reliable base of the game? Sorry but If something like this would said someone in my company and try to say this publicly, I would fire him immediately without questions.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

How do you expect the relation between casuals and oldschoolers in D2 to be actually? The real addicteds ("oldschoolers?")keep it alive - even now.

These oldschoolers as you call them were asking for respect system for YEARS. There were clear demand and requested very often on official blizzard forums for respec system.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

No they dont, as they demand the game to be a more-casuals type - or full-casuals in the end, cause this wouldnt stop... Even if there are games that proves, to set on casuals mainly, could work, doesnt give the right to demand that style for every other game too.

of course ..Developer can try risk it and stick with their words and ignore this big part of players but I believe this will cause much lower playerbase. Again..noone is saying there shouldn't be league for competitive/hardcore players.. But there should be something for the other group too. Cutting your potential playerbase by half is pretty stupid move.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

There is no real way to 100% please them all - maybe beside Blizzards actual way... and even if (what I assume) D3 will impress a lot of people (its what they are harderst work on) - nobody can say, how long this will be, how long it will be able to attract others than pure casuals.

yes..there is no way to 100% please them all..but there is way to please the most.

Most of the Diablo 2 fans will be playing Diablo 3, there's no getting around that. This game will survive by giving the people who have been waiting for D3 for years and are disappointed with things like respecs what they want. If they try to please everyone like Diablo 3 tries, this game will be just like D3 just with a lot less money behind it. Why would anyone pick PoE unless they just want to play for free? They won't make any profit off people who would rather play D3 but have no money to spend.

"

Fwib wrote:

Most of the Diablo 2 fans will be playing Diablo 3, there's no getting around that. This game will survive by giving the people who have been waiting for D3 for years and are disappointed with things like respecs what they want. If they try to please everyone like Diablo 3 tries, this game will be just like D3 just with a lot less money behind it. Why would anyone pick PoE unless they just want to play for free? They won't make any profit off people who would rather play D3 but have no money to spend.

well..you just said that restricted respec system is only difference between PoE and D3?

If this would be true.. I think no-one would be interested with PoE at all.

PoE is going in own path..which is great. But not introducing some systems just for the sake to be different is bad approach. Being different is good..being worse is not.

Of course..it's matter of opinion which is better/worse .. but in general..trying to be niche in current market is very risky move.

Competition is the most laughable argument against respecs I can imagine. Ladder? That's it? A dick stroking contest over who got their character level higher first?

Playing with a high level character with a diverse build that allows you to murder hordes of monsters in diverse and entertaining ways and in doing so find loot is the most fun part of the game. There are very few people that this statement is not true for, and for those people I would argue that they should find another game more suited to their tastes.

All those lower levels are you earning that. They're fun, but not in comparison to the high level guy. So when you tell someone they have to start over, you're telling them to go play the less fun part so they can get to the really fun part. And again and again and again. When instead, they could simply change how they murder monsters and continue having fun.

Essentially, making players reroll is telling them to stop having fun, and if you tell me to stop having fun, I am going to stop playing this game and play one that allows me to have fun.

As usual for these discussions, this thread has completely deteriorated into a "Your opinion sucks," and "If you had read my post, you would agree with me," sissy-slap fight.

Chalk this thread up with every other respec thread.

"

ManiaCCC wrote:

"

Fwib wrote:

Most of the Diablo 2 fans will be playing Diablo 3, there's no getting around that. This game will survive by giving the people who have been waiting for D3 for years and are disappointed with things like respecs what they want. If they try to please everyone like Diablo 3 tries, this game will be just like D3 just with a lot less money behind it. Why would anyone pick PoE unless they just want to play for free? They won't make any profit off people who would rather play D3 but have no money to spend.

well..you just said that restricted respec system is only difference between PoE and D3?

If this would be true.. I think no-one would be interested with PoE at all.

PoE is going in own path..which is great. But not introducing some systems just for the sake to be different is bad approach. Being different is good..being worse is not.

Of course..it's matter of opinion which is better/worse .. but in general..trying to be niche in current market is very risky move.

Please tell me where I "just said that". I was responding to your post and saying they should not try to appeal to everyone like D3 does, and instead try to appeal to the people who don't agree with what D3 is doing to the genre (there are a lot of those people by the way). Trying to be niche is fine if you're a small starting company competing with a multi million dollar company like Blizzard.

"

Competition is the most laughable argument against respecs I can imagine. Ladder? That's it? A dick stroking contest over who got their character level higher first?

Playing with a high level character with a diverse build that allows you to murder hordes of monsters in diverse and entertaining ways and in doing so find loot is the most fun part of the game. There are very few people that this statement is not true for, and for those people I would argue that they should find another game more suited to their tastes.

All those lower levels are you earning that. They're fun, but not in comparison to the high level guy. So when you tell someone they have to start over, you're telling them to go play the less fun part so they can get to the really fun part. And again and again and again. When instead, they could simply change how they murder monsters and continue having fun.

Essentially, making players reroll is telling them to stop having fun, and if you tell me to stop having fun, I am going to stop playing this game and play one that allows me to have fun.

As many people said before, if you don't consider leveling new characters fun then this really isn't the game for you. If the only thing you want to do is play the "end game" over and over there are much better games for that, it's not what games like PoE are about at all.

"

kidshazam wrote:

Competition is the most laughable argument against respecs I can imagine. Ladder? That's it? A dick stroking contest over who got their character level higher first?

Playing with a high level character with a diverse build that allows you to murder hordes of monsters in diverse and entertaining ways and in doing so find loot is the most fun part of the game. There are very few people that this statement is not true for, and for those people I would argue that they should find another game more suited to their tastes.

All those lower levels are you earning that. They're fun, but not in comparison to the high level guy. So when you tell someone they have to start over, you're telling them to go play the less fun part so they can get to the really fun part. And again and again and again. When instead, they could simply change how they murder monsters and continue having fun.

Essentially, making players reroll is telling them to stop having fun, and if you tell me to stop having fun, I am going to stop playing this game and play one that allows me to have fun.

GGG has clearly stated that they intend this game to be competitive so I would say that's quite a strong argument in general. Of course not everyone will agree but that's just how it is.

Furthermore personally I find the leveling process the most fun. It's because I like seeing my character "grow" into the build. I think it's a bit sad that many seem to neglect this part of the game as in my eyes that IS the game. Any potential end-game content is just icing on the cake.

"

Fwib wrote:

As many people said before, if you don't consider leveling new characters fun then this really isn't the game for you. If the only thing you want to do is play the "end game" over and over there are much better games for that, it's not what games like PoE are about at all.

Considering that Path of Exile is touted as D2's spiritual successor, and in fact the similarities are quite glaring, I would say that you're quite wrong. Very few folks played D2 for anything BUT the endgame.

"

tokiih wrote:

I find the leveling process the most fun. It's because I like seeing my character "grow" into the build. I think it's a bit sad that many seem to neglect this part of the game as in my eyes that IS the game. Any potential end-game content is just icing on the cake.

I can (and am) saying the same thing about the end game. I respect your enjoyment of leveling but personally find more enjoyment at the top tier of play, where I have more tools and such at my disposal with which to entertain myself.