No respec options? No thanks.

The confirmation is a great addition because it will prevent you from immediately locking in any passive, including accidental clicks.

"

Anomandaris wrote:

"

kodr wrote:

the confirmation is pointless IMO, that's not when you figured you made a mistake.

Would you mind clarifying what you're trying to say? Do you mean that it's pointless because you don't realise you've made a mistake until later?

That's what I meant.
The problem is mostly due to the fact you don't know what's coming.
"wow, I can use this skill now?!"
"cool, this weapon is awesome, maybe I shouldn't have spec in that other weapon"
"damn, that enemy does so much damage with his XXX element..."

Not knowming the enemy is normal. Not knowing the skills and what they will do is another problem on its own.

Take for example Diablo 2, you knew before hand what skill you could expect, and in which order. You don't know anything in PoE.
The quest reward you some skills, sometimes it's not even your "colors"...

"

kodr wrote:

That's what I meant.
The problem is mostly due to the fact you don't know what's coming.

Sorry, what problem?
They haven't said they're going to remove all capacity for respecs. Sure, the confirmation system will have no impact on in one way or the other (like you said), although it does solve a related problem. I for one am certainly not arguing that we should have no respec ability whatsoever, and Chris never mentioned anything like that.

"

kodr wrote:

"wow, I can use this skill now?!"
"cool, this weapon is awesome, maybe I shouldn't have spec in that other weapon"

Yeah, so not knowing the skills could be an issue the first time you play through. But transitioning is easy enough, especially within class colours, and some quests offer regret points as rewards to help deal with this.

"

kodr wrote:

"damn, that enemy does so much damage with his XXX element..."

Being able to easily respec around that is abusable, especially when it comes to ladders and PvP.

"

kodr wrote:

Take for example Diablo 2, you knew before hand what skill you could expect, and in which order. You don't know anything in PoE.
The quest reward you some skills, sometimes it's not even your "colors"...

For most builds, you will have choices in your colours. If you're doing something odd, like a dual-wand marauder, you need to stop and think about how to obtain skills in your colours, because you know you're going to struggle with just the rewards. I don't see a problem with that.

If you want to switch weapons at low level, it won't hinder you much. By high level, you will easily be able to correct any problems left over. Probably too easily, in fact. I don't see an issue here.

Tell that to the dev, the quest reward showed me a "raise zombie" as a 2H Mace marauder.

Transitioning into another game is quite easy aswell. I bet many people won't lose there time trying to learn it.

You get fun when you play the game and you get hooked, or you don't and you move on.

Either way, it's in the hand of the devs now, I did my job by giving my feedback.

"

kodr wrote:

Tell that to the dev, the quest reward showed me a "raise zombie" as a 2H Mace marauder.

There's no way that was your only option.

"

kodr wrote:

Transitioning into another game is quite easy aswell. I bet many people won't lose there time trying to learn it.

WTH? If you'll allow me some hyperbole, "OMG I want my spell witch to use an axe, she can't so I'm totally leaving this game." Dropping the game because you can't use something a bit different immediately hardly strikes me as a common reaction... when you can probably manage to use an item the next time you level up if you really want to, unless you are totally changing attributes in a big way, in which case what is wrong with rerolling?
People don't just stop playing a game for something else every time they find a good item for a different build/class or make a build mistake, regardless of respecs. To imply that quitting to play a different game is in any way a viable alternative to transitioning your build to a different weapon in PoE is absurd.

"

kodr wrote:

You get fun when you play the game and you get hooked, or you don't and you move on.

Yes. Obviously. I'm not seeing how the current availability of respecs or the implications of what Chris said have any direct impact on that...

"

kodr wrote:

Either way, it's in the hand of the devs now, I did my job by giving my feedback.

It was always in the hands of the devs.

EDIT:

Since I was really struggling to work out what your position on this was, I went back a few pages.
Does this sound about right?

"

kodr wrote:

They're working on something, you'll have to come back in a few weeks.

"

kodr wrote:

Overall, it means I don't want to play the game because I don't want to be punished. It's not fun. That's why they have to do something about it, and that's why many people raised their voice on the forum about it. You can't experiment with the current system, only if you're willing to restart the same character from scratch. It means you play play the same skills at low level instead of progressing in the game.

Regarding waiting and seeing, we're still on that track to some degree, because of this: (I quoted this before.)

"

Chris wrote:

We've discussed many options which all have their advantages and disadvantages. Depending on what mechanical changes we make to the tree, some or none of these respec modifications may be needed. Regardless of what respec policy we settle on though, we want to make sure that players can't respec large amounts of their character trivially and are encouraged to start a new character if they want an entirely different build.

Regarding not being able to experiment, I simply cannot agree with that. The game is very tolerant of experimental builds, and regarding needing to restart the same character from scratch, you are flat-out wrong. It is near impossible to break a character so badly as to make it unplayable unless you are specifically trying to do so, and also see this:

"

dust7 wrote:

In addition, most likely you wont need more than 50 orbs of regret because you will keep some points and not reset all of them, even if you heavily change the build. Also you have 8 respec points from quests and are most likely not level 100.

50 regret orbs you can get for 1 exalted + 2-3 gcp.

I think we are going in circle.

There is group of players, who want respec and no argument can change that.

Same with people who don't want see respec in the game.

But there is no good or bad opinion. It's up to GGG if they want cater to just one group of people or they will try satisfy both groups. Let's see what they stance will be.

"

Anomandaris wrote:

"

kodr wrote:

Tell that to the dev, the quest reward showed me a "raise zombie" as a 2H Mace marauder.

There's no way that was your only option.

There are some issues with the gem rewards that could lead to a situation, where he may get only gems he already own beside the zombie one - but that is by no fact related to the respec theme.

"

Anomandaris wrote:

"

kodr wrote:

Transitioning into another game is quite easy aswell. I bet many people won't lose there time trying to learn it.

People don't just stop playing a game for something else every time they find a good item for a different build/class or make a build mistake, regardless of respecs. To imply that quitting to play a different game is in any way a viable alternative to transitioning your build to a different weapon in PoE is absurd.

Ack. If you find, say, a godly wand (or imagine a bow) with a marauder - you'll probably never have the idea to make it use on this char - make a witch (or ranger) around them instead, why should a great axe not force your wish to make another char (beside the with it also?

"

ManiaCCC wrote:

I think we are going in circle.

There is group of players, who want respec and no argument can change that.

Same with people who don't want see respec in the game.

But there is no good or bad opinion. It's up to GGG if they want cater to just one group of people or they will try satisfy both groups. Let's see what they stance will be.

Its not possible to satisfy both groups, especially for the fact that one ("your") group demands it by a way that permits no exception from its point of view.
The "other side" just only suggests to avoid unlimited full respecs for some good reasons... we are pleased with the offered options to correct smaller mistakes of ongoing builds (of course, there may also be opinions to completely abstain from respec features, but this I assume really as a minority)

They cant offer a solution that pleases respec demanders, and take care of the consequences they wish to avoid at the same time.
If the given options dont seem acceptable to someone, just take your consequences from it.

"

Anomandaris wrote:

unless you are totally changing attributes in a big way, in which case what is wrong with rerolling?

Let's say I try a Templar build, and it doesn't work at all.

All right, I'll give it a shot and reroll. Play through all that low level content again, using only a few skills and crappy equipment, I'm not enjoying myself as much as I was before I had to reroll, but I'm working through it so I can get to the fun part again.

Oh. Shit. This build just plain isn't any fun. I guess I could reroll again?

Once again do the low level thing. Fight through all this content I have seen several times now. Getting really sick of this. Asking myself why I'm bothering, but eventually get back to where I was.

Wow. Really? This build just doesn't work at all because of gimped mechanics. No, I'm not rerolling again. I might, MIGHT try another class, if this Templar is the first one I've tried, otherwise I'm not going to play anymore. I'm going to find a game that is consistently enjoyable, where I don't hit a brick wall due to game design.

"

People don't just stop playing a game for something else every time they find a good item for a different build/class or make a build mistake, regardless of respecs. To imply that quitting to play a different game is in any way a viable alternative to transitioning your build to a different weapon in PoE is absurd.

No, it isn't. If "transitioning" was in any way enjoyable, that statement would hold truth, but it's nothing but work. I can either do work to enjoy myself, or I can turn on another game and immediately enjoy myself.

"

"

kodr wrote:

You get fun when you play the game and you get hooked, or you don't and you move on.

Yes. Obviously. I'm not seeing how the current availability of respecs or the implications of what Chris said have any direct impact on that...

Constantly having to reroll negatively impacts the enjoyment and entertainment derived from the game. I'm not sure how else this can be stated.

"

Regarding not being able to experiment, I simply cannot agree with that. The game is very tolerant of experimental builds, and regarding needing to restart the same character from scratch, you are flat-out wrong. It is near impossible to break a character so badly as to make it unplayable unless you are specifically trying to do so

You are absolutely insane. I've had to reroll several characters after discovering that the builds I was trying were not working due to the incredibly unclear gameplay mechanics. The only reason I have characters that are actually enjoyable to play is because I have scoured the forums looking for build information and general information on mechanics.

In that time I amassed very little wealth, so if I had wanted to start over I would have needed to spend hours and hours farming for orbs or something to trade for. Hours and hours of time using a bad or plain unenjoyable build, of work, to start over.

And even then, I would have to utilize the player run economy to find enough regret orbs, which means I have to stand around in town spamming trade messages, likely having to deal with multiple people because regret orbs are so rare, and then stand a good chance at getting scammed out of my wealth

This is completely unacceptable to me as a gamer, and it is unacceptable to me as a person with limited time to play.

"

Mr_Cee wrote:

"

ManiaCCC wrote:

I think we are going in circle.

There is group of players, who want respec and no argument can change that.

Same with people who don't want see respec in the game.

But there is no good or bad opinion. It's up to GGG if they want cater to just one group of people or they will try satisfy both groups. Let's see what they stance will be.

Its not possible to satisfy both groups, especially for the fact that one ("your") group demands it by a way that permits no exception from its point of view.
The "other side" just only suggests to avoid unlimited full respecs for some good reasons... we are pleased with the offered options to correct smaller mistakes of ongoing builds (of course, there may also be opinions to completely abstain from respec features, but this I assume really as a minority)

They cant offer a solution that pleases respec demanders, and take care of the consequences they wish to avoid at the same time.
If the given options dont seem acceptable to someone, just take your consequences from it.

oh, c'mon...it's not that hard. We already have two modes in the game.. another one wont hurt anyone.

but anyway.. from my point of view.. "other side" are trying to dictate how others should have fun..