No respec options? No thanks.

"

Anomandaris wrote:

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Anomandaris wrote:

snipped

What?

You claim it makes sense. How? Why?

As a response to someone claiming that it doesn't make sense. I just see no reason why it doesn't.

"

Sickness wrote:

As a response to someone claiming that it doesn't make sense. I just see no reason why it doesn't.

That doesn't refute his claim in any way whatsoever. Yes, I know he didn't attempt to explain or justify his claim either, but "Yes it does" is not an adequate rebuttal.

The rest of what I was on about was that if you think it does make sense, I see being able to change a character's class or starting a character at a high level as similar to totally rerolling a level 90 build so that it plays totally different, so what about your opinion on the sensibility of those?

(FYI I consider both those things to be game-breaking. They both destroy the fundamentals of progression.)

"

Anomandaris wrote:

"

Sickness wrote:

As a response to someone claiming that it doesn't make sense. I just see no reason why it doesn't.

That doesn't refute his claim in any way whatsoever. Yes, I know he didn't attempt to explain or justify his claim either, but "Yes it does" is not an adequate rebuttal.

I want him to explain his claim.
I mean, respec already exists. What about it doesn't make sense???

"

Anomandaris wrote:

The rest of what I was on about was that if you think it does make sense, I see being able to change a character's class or starting a character at a high level as similar to totally rerolling a level 90 build so that it plays totally different, so what about your opinion on the sensibility of those?

(FYI I consider both those things to be game-breaking. They both destroy the fundamentals of progression.)

You will have to make it clear what that has got to do with respec and if you want me to answer it.

"

Sickness wrote:

I want him to explain his claim.

So why not ask him to, instead of just stating a disagreement?

"

Sickness wrote:

I mean, respec already exists. What about it doesn't make sense???

Sure, it exists. It's not a full respec on a stick for zero extra cost or effort though. As I understand it, he wasn't claiming the concept of respec didn't make sense, he was claiming totally respecing a high level build into something completely different didn't make sense.

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Anomandaris wrote:

The rest of what I was on about was that if you think it does make sense, I see being able to change a character's class or starting a character at a high level as similar to totally respecing a level 90 build so that it plays totally different, so what about your opinion on the sensibility of those?

(FYI I consider both those things to be game-breaking. They both destroy the fundamentals of progression.)

You will have to make it clear what that has got to do with respec and if you want me to answer it.

What is a class in this game? Some arbitrary starting location in the skill tree.

What is a build in this game? Some arbitrary contiguous path through the skill tree, including a point or points defined by the class's starting location.

How different is a complete respec (as opposed to one point at a time from regret orbs and quest rewards, even if it's probably too easy to get a ton of them) from being allowed to change your class entirely? I say that in this game it's not very different.

I am asking you what you think about that. I am not claiming you have said anything that does or does not agree with it, I am just asking.

Is there a problem with that? I say yes - the fundamental idea of levelling up, or progression, is rendered somewhat pointless if I only ever need to make one high level character because I can respec to any build, any time, for minimal cost in terms of gameplay. In other words, I play the game once, then sit at endgame tier forever. If there is sufficient incentive to start again, then I don't see why we need any more than the ability to fix mistakes such as misclicks. If there is not, then the problem lies elsewhere in the design of the game, not in whether we need to be able to respec easier. How is that relevant? The game needing a more convenient way to fully respec would be the topic of this thread.

I am asking you what you think about that, too. Again, I am not claiming you have said anything that does or does not agree with it, I am just asking.

"

Sickness wrote:

I mean, respec already exists.

Thread title disproved. accepted. EOP

"

Die_Scream wrote:

Man, over and over with the straw man arguments. On the plus side, if the best you can do is make up arguments, you've already lost.

Wow you're making no sense at all, congratulations. Also what part of my argument is a 'straw man'? I simply voiced my opinion that the unique and distinguished feel of a character would get lost if respecs were (too) easy. You can't refute this, it's how I feel about it and that's not going to change because you think and feel differently. Easy respecs would destroy a fundamental part of the game for me that I enjoy.

"

Full and easy respecs you say?

Change your entire build huh? Like roles in other games?

I got news for you, not only does every witch/temp/Mara feel the same now, people are complaining even the classes feel the same to each other, right now, on page one.

And I got news for you, not everyone feels the same way. Your feelings and opinions don't make a fact. Also the question whether classes are too similar is an entirely different discussion.

"

Anomandaris wrote:

Sure, it exists. It's not a full respec on a stick for zero extra cost or effort though. As I understand it, he wasn't claiming the concept of respec didn't make sense, he was claiming totally respecing a high level build into something completely different didn't make sense.

But you can respec your high level build into something completely different.

"

Anomandaris wrote:

What is a class in this game? Some arbitrary starting location in the skill tree.

What is a build in this game? Some arbitrary contiguous path through the skill tree, including a point or points defined by the class's starting location.

How different is a complete respec (as opposed to one point at a time from regret orbs and quest rewards, even if it's probably too easy to get a ton of them) from being allowed to change your class entirely? I say that in this game it's not very different.

It is different because if you change class you change your arbitrary starting location in the skill tree.

"

Anomandaris wrote:

Is there a problem with that? I say yes - the fundamental idea of levelling up, or progression, is rendered somewhat pointless if I only ever need to make one high level character because I can respec to any build, any time, for minimal cost in terms of gameplay. In other words, I play the game once, then sit at endgame tier forever. If there is sufficient incentive to start again, then I don't see why we need any more than the ability to fix mistakes such as misclicks. If there is not, then the problem lies elsewhere in the design of the game, not in whether we need to be able to respec easier. How is that relevant? The game needing a more convenient way to fully respec would be the topic of this thread.

I don't think there is a problem with that. I really don't see the harm.
Make full respec and/or class chnage cost money and have a fairly long timer (couple of weeks).

"

Akazukin wrote:

Wow you're making no sense at all, congratulations. Also what part of my argument is a 'straw man'? I simply voiced my opinion that the unique and distinguished feel of a character would get lost if respecs were (too) easy. You can't refute this, it's how I feel about it and that's not going to change because you think and feel differently. Easy respecs would destroy a fundamental part of the game for me that I enjoy.

Without respec it is even worse, because then you just make new characters and they become vessles tha tare ready to be trashes when you figure out a better build.

Builds won't be more unique just because there isn't a full respec.

"

Sickness wrote:

Without respec it is even worse, because then you just make new characters and they become vessles tha tare ready to be trashes when you figure out a better build.

Builds won't be more unique just because there isn't a full respec.

The key thing for me is that each character feels unique and has its own characteristics and specialisations. Trashing a character and making a new one is perfectly fine because that character will build and develop its own specialisations that can't just be changed on the fly to suit every situation. I feel this gives every character a 'personality' and a more well defined role that I can grow attached to. For me this is an imortant part of my personal role-playing experience.

And for me and many other ppl is nothning more that boredom and unnecesary timesink.
Its nothing more that: "you want meke some fun in our game? Sorry but you must go again through the first 70lvls - kkthxbye".
Day has only 24hours and if GGG decide to make PoE simply game filled with extreme timesinks that i must go through until i get to "fun" stuff then sorry but i will play other game that is not forcing me to do things like that.

Just look at all news that released yesterday about Guild Wars 2, its basically F2P game with Item Shop like PoE - and its full of "antigrind philosophy" and "you can enjoy the game from lvl1 without stupid restrictions".
Its good design.
PoE in many cases = old, overused, bad design.

And if you want "roleplaying experience" i suggest Planescape Torment. This is HnS game, you kill monsters, get some shiniez and then logout - they dont have many in common with "real" RPGs.

But this discussion is pointles guys... when game enters open beta and we will have more than 300 players online THEY INTRODUCE EASY RESPECS. Soner or Later. Because feedback like this from OP will be overhelming. Trust me.
Current playerbase in beta has nothing in common with swarm of casuals that will come to PoE - and they, not hardcores will decide that PoE will live or will fail (whatever you like that or not).
Not taking this into consideration is nothing mor like extreme stupidity (and im not talking here about GGG because i know that they take this into consideration - im talking about "hardcore" players in this thread).