Loot

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drpepper wrote:

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Hartbrot wrote:

FFA looting is totally outdated.

D2 had FFA, because no other loot option existed at that time.

Guess what loot system D3 has? Right, personalized loot. They got rid of the annoying stuff like spamming pots, gimping chars and (drumroll) FFA looting.

FFA looting sucks big time, i am totally against it. And it is the reason i just play solo 99% of the time.

FFA looting kills fairness and keeps ppl from grouping. Get rid of it, please.

I totally agree 100%!!!

If it is FFA I will only play solo cause I don`t wanna argue with the other players. For example I grouped up with another person. He was a Templar, I was a witch with ranged spells. Guess who's got the good items? I could have asked him if he wanna share, but I just wasn't in a mood to do that...

Can't argue with Dr. Pepper... too damn delicious.

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thepmrc wrote:

The majority of people in favor of FFA are greedy bastards, the others play with friends/guildies and the like.

I play in random public parties, and I like FFA loot. What does that make me? I must be a greedy bastard, then. Thanks for the blanket insult towards everyone who disagrees with you; that's a great debate tactic.

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thepmrc wrote:

Why is it annoying to not see another players drops? The only reason I can see this as annoying is if you want to be able to snag anything good that drops. This is exactly the problem with FFA systems, greedy bastards feeling that every drop belongs to them.

You completely miss the point of the FFA system. It's not a desire for everything to belong to oneself, but a desire to have loot given to the party as a whole instead of individuals. The loot belongs to everyone in the party until someone picks it up.

Your argument can be turned the other way and still be valid: the people who want personal loot are greedy bastards because they don't want to share with anyone else. They want all the visible loot to belong to themselves and not have anyone else take it from them. See how that works both ways?

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Your argument can be turned the other way and still be valid

I wanted to stay out of this argument since it was getting really opinionated but no... you really can't.

Imagine a group of strangers chip in money to get two pizzas, one pepperoni and one cheese. You could

A) Divide the pizzas up fairly so that everyone gets a slice of pepperoni and a slice of cheese. People can trade their slices for the other kind if they have a specific preference, and if they're full they can CHOOSE to give their slice away.

B) Whoever grabs the pieces of pizza first claims ownership on those pieces.

There is nothing greedy about wanting what is yours. However, if you let people take whatever they want, generally speaking they'll try to take as much as they can get away with (this is a well documented fact, I don't care to hear you try to refute this). So no, you can't turn that around.

How often do you see complete strangers get together to buy meals as a group in real life? Almost never. Most people end up buying their own meals for the very reason they want what they paid for. That's not greed, that's being rational. Greed is wanting what belongs to other people, and a FFA system actively encourages that behavior.

Is loot still a free-for-all, or has this been changed?

Paying for something specific in real life doesn't make a good analogy to random things generated out of thin air by a video game. In the sense of economic trends, yes, but randomly-created amounts of loot, no. No one has any more right to a piece of loot than anyone else. If people would grasp that the loot belongs to the party and not themselves, they may be able to see why it belongs in a game like PoE.

This is nothing like paying for a meal as a group. You don't get to decide what kind of loot drops, assured that you'll get a share of your preference. Even in a personal loot system, you don't get that assurance. Your analogy is like going to McDonald's and having to take whatever food they decided to give you. At least if you were in a group, you would likely have someone else who gets something they don't want and will trade.

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TheMediator wrote:

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Your argument can be turned the other way and still be valid

I wanted to stay out of this argument since it was getting really opinionated but no... you really can't.

Imagine a group of strangers chip in money to get two pizzas, one pepperoni and one cheese. You could

A) Divide the pizzas up fairly so that everyone gets a slice of pepperoni and a slice of cheese. People can trade their slices for the other kind if they have a specific preference, and if they're full they can CHOOSE to give their slice away.

...except A) doesn't really describe what's happening with instanced loot.

From an FFA player's perspective, instanced loot looks more like the following:

C) The pizzas arrive in multiple boxes addressed to particular people, and you open the box addressed to you to find, say, one slice of cheese pizza.
Really, not the same. There's a difference between "dividing fairly" and "dividing by fiat", and instanced loot I think falls by nature into the latter category.

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Your argument can be turned the other way and still be valid: the people who want personal loot are greedy bastards because they don't want to share with anyone else. They want all the visible loot to belong to themselves and not have anyone else take it from them. See how that works both ways?

The main difference here is I don't claim to not be greedy, and I choose the system that allows for greedy people to play together and have fun.... I am very greedy, especially when it comes to my loot games, and the vast majority of people who play these games are the same, whether they choose to admit it or not is another story.

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There is nothing greedy about wanting what is yours. However, if you let people take whatever they want, generally speaking they'll try to take as much as they can get away with (this is a well documented fact, I don't care to hear you try to refute this). So no, you can't turn that around.

Very eloquently put.

This is not a deal breaker by any means. I dealt with FFA loot in D2 for years... by playing single player or with friends only. I assumed I would be doing the same in PoE cut-throat (what I am most interested in), but thought they might want to implement a looting system that is actually conducive to public party play in the softcore leagues.

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Vandro wrote:

How do you handle loot? Free for all frenzy like Diablo 1 and 2, or maybe personalized loot like Diablo 3?

I think the Diablo 3 way is far better :)

That is one thing they got right, mostly for grouping with complete strangers. With friends the way it is for the most part is ok. But you never know how people will act, playing can become something like a comedy.

Go to Youtube and search for the vid titled "How REAL men solve an argument".

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Really, not the same.

Can you explain the difference to me? The only difference I see is that in one case, you can see what is on someone else's plate and in the other you can't.

In either scenario, it really isn't relevant what someone got unless they're willing to share, and if they are, they can let you know what they found.

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I dealt with FFA loot in D2 for years... by playing single player or with friends only.

It pretty much comes down to this. And I know for sure I wouldn't recommend a game to my friends that was structured like this. What makes this genre in my mind is the community element, and FFA loot doesn't encourage community building.

Instanced/Personalized loot please.
It promotes better co-op play