depends. do you value spending time honing the capabilities and playstyle of one character or do you value spending your time double-, triple-, quadruple-dipping albeit less deeply across multiple characters? it's really a subjective matter here
I think you should read the thread again to get on the same page with everyone else.
We're talking about prior planning of a build and the time wasted by those who fail to plan.
Last edited by Natharias#4684 on Feb 21, 2014, 1:00:46 AM
Accommodating new players, not capricious veterans is the defining factor here. More respecs for first characters of an account seems reasonable.
Want to Fix the Economy, Bad Loot, Trade and Legacy PvP? pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/548056
Open Letter to Qarl on Crafting Value pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/805434
Biggest Problem with Mapping: Inconsistent Risk to Reward pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/612507
If you don't like it or you have a job or whatever reason you have, then I hope that it'll comfort you guys that the game is simply not made for you...
I'm a casual player myself and have never gotten past lvl 70, but I still enjoy the game, reroll a few times etc. And I'm not disapointed when my build is completely screwed, 'cause I know the game is meant for exactly that!
If you don't like it then play something else, because the devs probably won't change it! The game is supposed to be a grind only for the guy that doesn't spend time on pretty much anything else.
Personally I like it though... 'Cause I'll probably never feel like I've completed the game, when I can't even get past merciless 'cause my build keeps screwing with me... If you don't like it, then the simple solution is to play something else. The game wasn't meant to have a large playerbase! Only for the serious grinders.
Please don't take this as flaming or anything, 'cause it really wasn't meant like that.
I like many kinds of games 😊
Last edited by ArchSecter#6077 on Feb 21, 2014, 10:29:44 AM
What's even more stupid, ignorant, and hypocritical than said stupidity, ignorance, and hypocrisy you proclaim about us and the external Dummy Skill Tree is the fact you said:
"
allionus wrote:
I think these things are stupid and people should be allowed to freely test points and combinations on the same character, instead of testing them outside game with these softwares then applying them ingame.
Really? Tell me, what difference does it make if the mathematical values are calculated in-game vs. outside of PoE? There is no difference except for the fact in-game calculations would be more convenient than calculations outside PoE through the use of a Dummy Skill Tree.
If we go by what you're suggesting to have in-game calculations for the Skill Tree (I wouldn't mind,) wouldn't it be just as easy to make a build, if not, easier to make a build?
Furthermore, are you so shortsighted so as to think that just because someone has a perfect Skill Tree everything stops there? If that's what you think, you're wrong. You have to consider what skill gems and equipment you need, and what mods to look out for on drops. You also need to separate what's going to benefit you more vs. what is not when it comes to your skill gems and equipment.
"
allionus wrote:
I think this is stupid. and ignorant when people use this and tell me that i need to reroll my character because i haven't learnt it the 'hard way'. They actually need to delete the character they made, because they used this software to take the easy hike into "Tree pro-ness" without suffering each mistake that they made that they would have otherwise. Then come here and tell me that i need to Grow a pair and do the same thing i did with the previous character.
Just because you're using a Dummy Skill Tree outside PoE does not mean you cannot make any mistake(s). You're just getting upset because we're telling you the best way how not to make mistakes, yet because it does require a little bit of work to make your own build, etc., you want to give everyone here a hard time by saying how stupid everything is!
"
allionus wrote:
You all are doing the same thing : Using tools outside game to avoid decision consequences, then defending each other by calling this "challenging and reroll promoting". i'm gettin sick of typing the same stuff again n again :'(
I call hypocrisy(ish)
If we're hypocrites, then that must make you the biggest one here for reasons already stated earlier in this response to you.
P.S.
Spoiler
"
HeavyMetalGear wrote:
YEAH, let's just suggest GGG give everyone a spoon-fed easy game in which all classes at their start locations can only go ONE way on the Skill Tree so no one makes
You go here (the Wiki for PoE on Unique Items,) scroll down where it says 'References,' then click on the links 'Amulets,' 'Armor,time. Do you know why? They were quite possibly given everything they own and never learned anything on their own. Worse, they're just bad at playing games, including but not limited to, PoE, and no amount of guides in the world of Wraeclast are going to help these players!
If the above pertains to you in any way, consider playing another game, or better, play PoE the best you can by keeping your complaints to yourself or at a minimal since it's probably you, not the game.
"
allionus wrote:
Read the previous ones pls <3. i cant type that again ..
It's called putting what someone said in a spoiler, but you probably already know how to do that. You just couldn't give me a good response since you know I'm right in what I said (like a great many other PoE users who try to refute what I say in these forums.)
Anyway, now that I've read all your replies to everyone else, I'm listening to what you have to say (if anything.)
When game developers ignore the criticism that would improve their game, the game fails.
Just because a game receives a great amount of praise vs. only a small amount of criticism
does not mean to call it a day and make a foolish misplaced assumption that it is perfect.
(me)
Last edited by HeavyMetalGear#2712 on Feb 25, 2014, 8:27:53 PM
How about doing it for fun? Lvling new chars going in different direction and say fuck efficiency.
Oh, wait, you people are here to have this game be your second job.
No thanks, i already got one i dont need two, so i actually play for fun.
IF i am made to reroll the same class because i have no better reset options, i am not doing it with the intention of fun.
People who want to keep this style are the ones making this game their job, by spending all this time levelling replacement characters and calling it fun, and good use of time.
To be honest, I approve of either:
a) a single tree reset for the first X characters to hit level Y
b) for your first X characters that beat the last boss of normal mode, award additional skill refund points for each last boss of each difficulty.
c) additional account-wide skill refund points with certain quests, so that truly new players (and not veterans seeking an easy way to level) get a helping hand.
My reasoning is simple:
Although I think you should plan your character - just as Natharias said - I also think it's absolutely bullshit to expect a new player to properly plan a character like a player who actually understands the game would.
On the other side of the spectrum, expecting new players to abandon creativity and simply copy existing builds from veteran players is even worse bullshit.
GGG should encourage creativity by giving players a decent leeway for mistakes.
But it should be done in a way that doesn't make choices meaningless for veterans.
This is the right approach, for sure.
Yeah this can be a good way to put it. They can also keep a count on how many hours you play with a certain class. And allow you resets for a certain amount of time on each class ( like average time taken to get to 55-60) Which is where the main challenge begins somewhat. And after that time passes, your character Becomes "Solid", meaning you can not reset that character's points anymore.
They Just need To provide people with some moving space atleast till the point where its really not hard at all and each class is its own reason to be played. The Skill tree doesn't promote rerolling just kinda makes an innuendo :v
Very rare are the mistakes that require a full respec to fix if you're willing to tough it out a few levels to get the points you need to "bridge the gap" the right way(after which you can use quest respec points & regret orbs to refnd the error points).
And if worse comes to worse a full respec does exist: It's called buying a whole lot of regrets.
Having a respec option is all fine and good, but what you're really asking for is a cheap respec option, which I don't like.
Cheap respecs causes a huge portion of the playerbase to hop from one FotM build to the next, never stopping to think for themselves. Cheap respecs also remove the tradeoff between builds that are strong early(easy to level) and those that are garbage early game but end up strong(like summoners). Not to mention in a game where class only affects start position, cheap respecs remove the primary reason to actually roll more then on character(trying different things out)- this does murder on character indetity and uniqueness of play experience.
Personall I think in a hardcore game forcing the player to make choices and live with the consequences is a vital part of the experience.
Having some additional quest refund points wouldn't hurt though.
I'll suggest a new idea for this : Why not just reward people with a Full reset point upon ending each difficulty, which makes only 3 resets available per character, and at the end of merciless, the game really begins to get difficult.
I hope you don't justify rerolling and grinding easy mode thru same areas again As a logical replacement of one of the other respec options i and other people have suggested here... I'd rather keep failing at a place where i lose 10% of my exp every time i go in with a bad build than just realise i have bad build and ditch character over to new one ;v.
If you don't like it or you have a job or whatever reason you have, then I hope that it'll comfort you guys that the game is simply not made for you...
I'm a casual player myself and have never gotten past lvl 70, but I still enjoy the game, reroll a few times etc. And I'm not disapointed when my build is completely screwed, 'cause I know the game is meant for exactly that!
If you don't like it then play something else, because the devs probably won't change it! The game is supposed to be a grind only for the guy that doesn't spend time on pretty much anything else.
Personally I like it though... 'Cause I'll probably never feel like I've completed the game, when I can't even get past merciless 'cause my build keeps screwing with me... If you don't like it, then the simple solution is to play something else. The game wasn't meant to have a large playerbase! Only for the serious grinders.
Please don't take this as flaming or anything, 'cause it really wasn't meant like that.
The game is also meant for people not copying op builds from other people who copied it from someone else, But people will still do it. Neither is it built to make someone do full research before playing any of the game and build a near flawless character with all the guidelines set in from day 1. But people still do it. I can also do it. I can Defy everything that you believe the game stands for and seems to promote, and here i am tryna get a viable respec option in place.
And all i am asking for is a better option so i can atleast find taking big risks worthwhile. Oh and not waste my life rerolling unwillingly, :v
What's even more stupid, ignorant, and hypocritical than said stupidity, ignorance, and hypocrisy you proclaim about us and the external Dummy Skill Tree is the fact you said:
"
allionus wrote:
I think these things are stupid and people should be allowed to freely test points and combinations on the same character, instead of testing them outside game with these softwares then applying them ingame.
"
Really? Tell me, what difference does it make if the mathematical values are calculated in-game vs. outside of PoE? There is no difference except for the fact in-game calculations would be more convenient than calculations outside PoE through the use of a Dummy Skill Tree.
If we go by what you're suggesting to have in-game calculations for the Skill Tree (I wouldn't mind,) wouldn't it be just as easy to make a build, if not, easier to make a build?
Furthermore, are you so shortsighted so as to think that just because someone has a perfect Skill Tree everything stops there? If that's what you think, you're wrong. You have to consider what skill gems and equipment you need, and what mods to look out for on drops. You also need to separate what's going to benefit you more vs. what is not when it comes to your skill gems and equipment.
"
allionus wrote:
I think this is stupid. and ignorant when people use this and tell me that i need to reroll my character because i haven't learnt it the 'hard way'. They actually need to delete the character they made, because they used this software to take the easy hike into "Tree pro-ness" without suffering each mistake that they made that they would have otherwise. Then come here and tell me that i need to Grow a pair and do the same thing i did with the previous character.
Just because you're using a Dummy Skill Tree outside PoE does not mean you cannot make any mistake(s). You're just getting upset because we're telling you the best way how not to make mistakes, yet because it does require a little bit of work to make your own build, etc., you want to give everyone here a hard time by saying how stupid everything is!
"
allionus wrote:
You all are doing the same thing : Using tools outside game to avoid decision consequences, then defending each other by calling this "challenging and reroll promoting". i'm gettin sick of typing the same stuff again n again :'(
I call hypocrisy(ish)
"
If we're hypocrites, then that must makes you the biggest one here for reasons already stated earlier in this response to you.
P.S.
Spoiler
"
HeavyMetalGear wrote:
YEAH, let's just suggest GGG give everyone a spoon-fed easy game in which all classes at their start locations can only go ONE way on the Skill Tree so no one makes
You go here (the Wiki for PoE on Unique Items,) scroll down where it says 'References,' then click on the links 'Amulets,' 'Armor,time. Do you know why? They were quite possibly given everything they own and never learned anything on their own. Worse, they're just bad at playing games, including but not limited to, PoE, and no amount of guides in the world of Wraeclast are going to help these players!
If the above pertains to you in any way, consider playing another game, or better, play PoE the best you can by keeping your complaints to yourself or at a minimal since it's probably you, not the game.
"
allionus wrote:
Read the previous ones pls <3. i cant type that again ..
It's called putting what someone said in a spoiler, but you probably already know how to do that. You just couldn't give me a good response since you know I'm right in what I said (like a great many other PoE users who try to refute what I say in these forums.)
Anyway, now that I've read all your replies to everyone else, I'm listening to what you have to say (if anything.)
o lawd
I'll make this very short, hopefully.
* As you stated that passive tree isn't the only thing that you can make a painful mistake in, neither is it the basis of PoE's replayability, those are the classes. Nor is it the core of what makes this game difficult. Equips gems, etc,etc. also matter.*
You then said "Really? Tell me, what difference does it make if the mathematical values are calculated in-game vs. outside of PoE? There is no difference except for the fact in-game calculations would be more convenient than calculations outside PoE through the use of a Dummy Skill Tree.
* Well, if it is so insignificant and doesn't matter, But you did not take into consideration the fact that in the game you Can Not see the Numerical differences LEL. Which you CANin the handy dandy sites/softwares, I checked one out, it showed me % increase in dmg,hp,shield, numerical increases in hp,Stats, movement but is no for me. I think that's softcore spoonfeeding. Like the people opposing this think respecc is for pussies while effectively doing the same thing alt-tabbed, only quicker and actually IN GREATER DETAIL THAN THE GAME ,lel
Hory shiey. Why do people think that they have to "live with their choices in this game" and "every decision is final". NO ITS NOT. There is Gonna be a GLOBAL Reset. Stop Acting like you never got to reset your skills. Stop pretending like Re-rolling is hardcore. It is the easiest part of the whole game. and it DOES become easier every time, unless you are incapable of learning or remembering. I can literally do it with my eyes closed and a friend on skype, yes i can. Get over it. It's not fucking hardcore. Stap.pls.
Why do some People who play this game so much look at so few things when defending this point here,lol.
