IDEAS for Passive Skill Tree Reset

Yeah, they do, Natharias.
They need to keep improving the game on all fronts.

Any one's personal tastes are subjective, but certain aspects of a game are not.

This game suffers from a terribly dull early game - that is a major flaw that GGG can and should refine.

Hatred towards popular games doesn't reinforce one's argument, it simply exposes one's bias.
Path of Exile is not "noob unfriendly" compared to Diablo 3.
It's simply dull in early game.

You can spend hours planning a build in Path of Exile, but so can you in Diablo 3.
And just like you can copy an existing working build in Diablo 3, so can you in Path of Exile.

What matters is this:
At this point in Path of Exile you can find a build anywhere.
So the question isn't how troublesome it is to come up with a working build.
The question is what is the point in making it hard?

There's no harm to the community, economy or YOUR personal enjoyment of the game if accounts considered new are encouraged to experiment UNTIL they are no longer considered new.
A good "checkpoint" is once you beat Normal on any of your characters.

"

Nurvus wrote:

Yeah, they do, Natharias.
They need to keep improving the game on all fronts.

Any one's personal tastes are subjective, but certain aspects of a game are not.

This game suffers from a terribly dull early game - that is a major flaw that GGG can and should refine.

Hatred towards popular games doesn't reinforce one's argument, it simply exposes one's bias.
Path of Exile is not "noob unfriendly" compared to Diablo 3.
It's simply dull in early game.

You can spend hours planning a build in Path of Exile, but so can you in Diablo 3.
And just like you can copy an existing working build in Diablo 3, so can you in Path of Exile.

What matters is this:
At this point in Path of Exile you can find a build anywhere.
So the question isn't how troublesome it is to come up with a working build.
The question is what is the point in making it hard?

There's no harm to the community, economy or YOUR personal enjoyment of the game if accounts considered new are encouraged to experiment UNTIL they are no longer considered new.
A good "checkpoint" is once you beat Normal on any of your characters.

True. Somewhat repetitive and dull early game, and no viable skill resets lead to spending more time in this phase, keeping people from what the game has to offer. rerolling is basically the option for full reset right now.

And exactly, there is no point in making it so difficult to get resets ingame, when others can just start with a copied build, they lose the choice of exploring but at least they don't have to spend time in Normal cruel merciless grind again.

There are just too many kinks in this system which people can avoid it by external sources like talent calculators and full confirmed builds, so no point in pretending that it makes the game tougher ;v

People basically want PoE to be a grind fest for people who try their own builds who'll stay stuck in mediocre land not seeing post 60ish until they've played through all acts a dozen times with the same class. And a beautiful haven where you can get to end game in the first try for people who spend hours on websites and guides and skill tree calculators, which are all more detailed than the in game Passive tree, which is permanent and does not show changes until YOU SAVE IT, because its perfect and god made it and there's no flaw in it and it doesn't need change (*Cough*incomingpatch*cough*).

"

Nurvus wrote:

Yeah, they do, Natharias.
They need to keep improving the game on all fronts.

Any one's personal tastes are subjective, but certain aspects of a game are not.

This game suffers from a terribly dull early game - that is a major flaw that GGG can and should refine.

Hatred towards popular games doesn't reinforce one's argument, it simply exposes one's bias.
Path of Exile is not "noob unfriendly" compared to Diablo 3.
It's simply dull in early game.

You can spend hours planning a build in Path of Exile, but so can you in Diablo 3.
And just like you can copy an existing working build in Diablo 3, so can you in Path of Exile.

What matters is this:
At this point in Path of Exile you can find a build anywhere.
So the question isn't how troublesome it is to come up with a working build.
The question is what is the point in making it hard?

There's no harm to the community, economy or YOUR personal enjoyment of the game if accounts considered new are encouraged to experiment UNTIL they are no longer considered new.
A good "checkpoint" is once you beat Normal on any of your characters.

No, they don't. They decided to make the game a certain way and that's how it is. I doubt that GGG will suddenly allow quests to give multiple gems, an option to buy gems from vendors, or add more quests to grant more rewards.

This has never been about personal taste, so why mention it?

That makes me wonder your whole train of thought about how you think PoE and D3 are so similar, when they aren't. They're different in many ways, especially in how you cannot simply change skills from one thing to something completely different. If you want to get off topic and claim that you can spend hours planning one build in D3, I'd love to prove you wrong. PM me if you want to do that, as this is getting off topic.

"

What matters is this:
At this point in Path of Exile you can find a build anywhere.
So the question isn't how troublesome it is to come up with a working build.
The question is what is the point in making it hard?

What's making it hard? The fact that new players, that have nothing, have to grind to get their gear and currency? That's the point of an ARPG like this. This is how Diablo was. This game only ramps up the value of currency and lowers its quantity down to rock bottom. Either you spend hours farming for currency or flipping items once you're mapping, or you hate the game because you don't get anywhere due to lack of time investment.

"

There's no harm to the community, economy or YOUR personal enjoyment of the game if accounts considered new are encouraged to experiment UNTIL they are no longer considered new.
A good "checkpoint" is once you beat Normal on any of your characters.

Most players do not see any time wasted if they have a character failing by the end of normal. Players usually don't have a problem rerolling within normal, seeing how that's only about 30 levels. It's very easy to get to 30 within a few hours of lax play.

Even then, it doesn't matter when they fail or what they do. Most players will find themselves searching the forums and posting questions on them, either in a QQ form or in a confused manner. Some bad folks get into those threads but most of the time experienced players will reply and give them links to helpful websites, give them valuable pieces of advice, and give them direction without having to do the searching themselves.

How do I know this? I see new posts from new players all of the time. They all do the same thing and all get the same help from the same experienced players. They are given the links to the best websites, are given direct information, and in everyway helped without having to do any manual research.

Instead of spending "hours" researching the game, they can spend minutes to log into the forums, post what they need, and then read the detailed answers they need.

Example 1: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/804796

Example 2: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/804800

Example 3: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/804730

Example 4: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/803384

Example 5: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/802910

Various "noobs" asking questions that have been answered many times before, would take no effort to search, are lacking in information to be helped, and in other ways are imperfect. Yet, different people post in those threads to offer different levels of help and suggestions for them to listen to.

Edit:

All of the evidence makes me wonder why you are so in favor of something like full resets for "new" accounts. If a noob just resets, he's likely to NOT search the forums and get the help he needs. You'd be surprised how foolish the average person is and will assume they are competent enough to plan a build without any prior knowledge or help from the forums.

Pardon my late reply.

"

allionus wrote:

There are already present unavoidable resets that happen, so failing to remember your passive tree is your own damn fault, like it is making mistakes placing points. Then you can use the simple "print screen" of steam. And Its not that hard to remember it lol. You can obviously remember the spells you had the last day, the things you specialized in, the prominent nodes, the taken path. Its really not hard to remember when i spend 10 minutes placing every point. Then again. Screenshot, bra.

Right, screenshot, which is something I don't do, but it seems you do since you're making the screenshot suggestion to me (in an inadvertent way.) Using a screenshot for a reference point is the same difference as using the Dummy Skill Tree as a reference point since both methods are used to remember the path you took, and since a screenshot is a reference point, you can improve on it.

You really didn't think out your response very well when you mentioned doing screenshots. Only a hypocrite like yourself would mention that in your own argument for someone who's so against reference points whether through doing screenshots or using the Dummy Skill Tree.

"

allionus wrote:

Its just a skill tree, Its only got so many nodes. That counters the whole idea of it being difficult.

Really? If it's only got so many nodes and it's not that difficult, why did you (the author of the OP) bother to make this thread regarding a Skill Tree reset? I bet it's because you plan your builds terribly (red flag!) or because you're lazy to make your own build based (at least somewhat) on your own merits and research.

It's funny; you seem to be telling me the Skill Tree is easy, yet you're wanting a Skill Tree reset to help undo all your mistakes.

allionus quotes HeavyMetalGear:

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

Your sentences and thoughts are so broken off, beginning and ending in ways they shouldn't begin or end.

HeavyMetalGear quotes allionus

"

allionus wrote:

You are wrong. They make perfect sense. Explain to me otherwise. And this is not "american english", btw.

I don't have to give you an entire English lesson, but I will point out a few things. Just because I pointed something out to you does not make me your teacher. Educate yourself. The fact you often use the word and (among other words) to begin a new sentence explains everything.

More than not, it's improper to begin a sentence with words like and. You also didn't capitalize the word English in the above quoted from you. When you mention any language in a sentence via Spanish, Portuguese, German, etc. you capitalize them.

If you want to know more regarding the above stated, do more of your own research.

"

allionus wrote:

I don't know why you are going after my grammar now, perhaps valid reasons scarce, but again you just seem to have randomly quoted/mis-pasted something and thought it didn't make sense, but it's from a previous sentence, so again my responses become longer and more time consuming for me, please don't put external stuff in the argument now...

I had a valid reason to go against your grammar and sentence structure since what you said didn't sound complete. I didn't mis-paste / mis-quote anything. I quoted exactly what you wrote.

"

allionus wrote:

Tell me in direct words, why the current tree is better than the proposed tree, other than your idea of it making the game super hardcore.

I already told you, but you're so absent-minded you forgot. As I've said before, it's not a matter of whether or not the current Skill Tree is hardcore or not; it's how it was designed.

It's not the Skill Tree that has to change, it's the player, you being one of those players.

This is the extent of your logic: Players who use the Skill Tree how it's supposed to be used without the easy-mode Skill Tree reset means players who are OK with the current Skill Tree are hardcore (regardless whether or not being hardcore goes through a player's mind just because they're OK with the current Skill Tree, and use it successfully.)

If that's what you think, think again. Not every player thinks they're hardcore by using the Skill Tree as intended or because they're OK with it. On another note, not every PoE user uses the Dummy Skill Tree to their advantage just because it's available on PoE's site.

You're what I call an assumptionist, per se, a person whose assumptions give shadows to things that do not exist toward a person/player or a broad range of people/players. Assumptions like that overgeneralize in that they act like a ricochet bullet, and as a result, punishes everyone around you even if not necessarily intended toward certain people/players.

allionus quotes HeavyMetalGear:

"

allionus wrote:

And you will not go against your own crutch lol, which is the outside tree, which you use, calling it fair, But to me it simply looks like you depending on something more than what the game gave you to play. Too bad self righteousness.
And you seem to be more than ok with the idea of a "dummy skill tree" or as i like to say " a more detailed skill tree which can be used and reused to see the impact of otherwise unchangable choices on your character, the boost of stats, load your GEAR and LEVELS to get an even MORE accurate -INSIGHT- Providing tool" lol.

If you read what I wrote in my last reply (you did not,) I did acknowledge where you're coming from in that, yes, the external Skill Tree is somewhat easy-mode (to be fair,) but it's nowhere near easy-mode as a full Skill Tree reset for reasons already stated in my last reply.

Therefore, yes, I did go against my own said crutch (as you put it) in that I admitted using the Dummny Skill Tree can be easy-mode too, but not quite as easy-mode if you were to do a full Skill Tree reset, especially more than one time.

You on the other hand admit to nothing that your genius suggestion (sarcasm) isn't easy-mode.

allionus quotes HeavyMetalGear:

"

HeavyMetalGear wrote:

How can I take you seriously when you're not even taking yourself seriously? You're full of contradictions, one after the other. What else are you going to say to contradict yourself?

"

allionus wrote:

This is how i see you, basically.

Basically? 'Basically' is bad as almost since almost doesn't count. It either is the way you see me, or not the way you see me. Make up your mind...

"

allionus wrote:

Btw, idgaf about hardcore or softcore, that people's own personal Perception of the game, well and some subconscious conformation.

Is that so? If something being hardcore vs. softcore does not matter much to you, then why do you still continue to give a damn to argue with me on what's more softcore vs. what's not? The above quoted from you is a clear indication of defeat in this discussion. Instead of facing what I'm pointing out head-on, you're slowly cowering away.

"

allionus wrote:

Do you acknowledge that you use the ...actually More detailed skill tree from sites, etc before making in game decisions?

Is that what you believe? It shouldn't need to be said that before I started experimenting with the Dummy Skill Tree, I went about playing the game without it to see what I could do with no reference point, and I didn't do too bad. I'm sorry that's not the case for you.

"

allionus wrote:

Then do you acknowledge that it does give you an advantage over directly putting a node in the game, without knowing the Percentage and Numerical changes or any changes at all.?

Basically having it easy. Basically no ground to argue.

"it's like being into anal sex and hating gay people, at the same time" lol.

I acknowledge the bigger picture outside the big picture more than you can know, so yes, I do acknowledge your point in some way, shape, or form. However, you should know those sites that calculate the Dummy Skill Tree's values were not always around. I didn't know of their existence until recently, and as a result, I didn't always use those sites.

P.S.

Here is the biggest question you avoid I have for you:

Do you acknowledge the fact (for already said reasons in my last reply) that a full Skill Tree reset is also easy-mode, if not, more so than using a Dummy Skill Tree?

That is the question. I've already answered yours. What's your answer?

Here are a few facts:
- Your character progress is very slow in early game - in terms of passives, skill combos and gear.
- You level up alot faster than you gear up
- Game difficulty increases exponentially (this is fine)
- New players who take pleasure in figuring out their own builds will likely reroll alot as they learn the mechanics and challenges that await them. (this is fine)

Now here's the catch:
When do you reroll?
When you realize your build doesn't work.
And when does that happen?
Probably in late Normal or early Cruel.

Taking all of the above into consideration, here is the obvious conclusion:
New players spend ALOT of time playing, rerolling and replaying Path of Exile at levels that do NOT offer interesting/exciting gameplay, and that makes it VERY easy to have a WRONG idea of what the game has to offer.

GGG is not doing a good job at giving new players a reasonable idea of what awaits them if they endure the challenges until late game.
New players seem to be expected to be perfectionists who keep rerolling and playing characters that spend 90% of their playtime with no more than 2 supports per skill as well as super incomplete builds for the first 100 hours of that account's gameplay... seriously?
How does GGG expect to keep players interested?

GGG doesn't need White Knights.
They need players who provide meaningful feedback and help them polish the game as much as possible.

Yo, HeavyMetalGear.

I am not gonna quote all of that again and then edit quotes out n stuff, but i'll still reply.


1 - So if i suggest something, it automatically means i do it, according to you. I don't Bother with the stupid tools, calculators and guides, why should i bother screenshotting my skill tree, ? It's a fucking image for fuck's sake, lol. Be rational.

How do you compare a software/ calculator made for the very purpose of having it easy to a fucking screenshot.The only reason i suggested the screen shot option was because someone said that how are you gonna put your talents back after resets, or something. YOU CANT EVEN GET THE WHOLE TREE IN ONE FRAME TO SHOOT IT. LELELELELELE

Im just gonna be blunt : HAHAHAHAHA!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!! "Using a screenshot for a reference point is the same difference as using the Dummy Skill Tree as a reference point"- You. LELELELEE, how do you come to this conclusion? I bet it's Magic/Jesus. It's like saying a picture of a pizza = 3D model of pizza with real scent. ok.




2- Funny thing is, RESET'S HAPPENING IN TWO DAYS HAHAHAHA!!!! I am gonna get a full reset HAHAHAHA, and i am gonna make so fucking sure that This time it's Perfect. Not to criticize your deduction skills, but you are wrong. I have actually spent the past 150 hours in game WITHOUT looking at a single external build, which is infinitely more original than you are.

i quote "It's funny; you seem to be telling me the Skill Tree is easy, yet you're wanting a Skill Tree reset to help undo all your mistakes." It's funny because you already use a resettable skill tree to prevent your mistakes from the very beginning, LOLOLLOLOLO. los burnos.


I
WILL
NOT
REROLL
JUST
BECAUSE
THE
DEVELOPERS
DIDN'T
PROVIDE
A
LOGICAL/
SENSIBLE/
NOTATOTALFUCKINGWASTEOFMYTIME
OPTION.

Oh and i actually don't have to at all. I'll just copy someone's confirmed build. Lol Jk, im not a loser. But yeah, i actually am getting what i want. A reset. All i need. Literally.


3- I don't need you to teach me English. And you already know that. And i am not going to continue with that bit.



4- Quote "As I've said before, it's not a matter of whether or not the current Skill Tree is hardcore or not; it's how it was designed." This is your reason. "how it was designed". EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME CHANGES. ITS A FUCKING GAME. NOT THE WORLD. NOTHING IMPORTANT! <fact.

You also act like there is some sense of 'originality' to this game. Oh there is a lot of creativity and originality in this game, so is a lot of stuff which was copied from earlier games. The latter being something that fanboys/long time supporters never look at.


5-((((((((Long Stretch of you giving Random conclusions/character profiling/ assessments including me having some sense of an "assumptionist" in me, and you failing to realise that i have spent around 130 hours on my single level 60 shadow without rerolling once, and with my own tree and im still playing him.

Because that's what a person who's spent over 200 fucking hours on a game is gonna " ASSUME " and take everything out of his ass, Growing magical asshair shadows, lol, because you are the PoE guru, and everyone else assumes shit. Maybe you should self-reflect.


Your :"You're what I call an assumptionist, per se, a person whose assumptions give shadows to things that do not exist toward a person/player or a broad range of people/players.Assumptions like that overgeneralize in that they act like a ricochet bullet, and as a result, punishes everyone around you even if not necessarily intended toward certain people/players.:" stands true for you. Not an entirely expressive statement, but it's worthy of its speaker.

another quote "Basically? 'Basically' is bad as almost since almost doesn't count. It either is the way you see me, or not the way you see me. Make up your mind..." I do now. I made up my mind.

Now, let's stick to the topic.

6-




Oh wait, found another quote : "Is that what you believe? It shouldn't need to be said that before I started experimenting with the Dummy Skill Tree, I went about playing the game without it to see what I could do with no reference point, and I didn't do too bad. I'm sorry that's not the case for you." Here, i'll how you something : you apparently did bad enough to re-roll and start using the external helpers to help you out in decision making.




"I acknowledge the bigger picture outside the big picture more than you can know, so yes, I do acknowledge your point in some way, shape, or form. However, you should know those sites that calculate the Dummy Skill Tree's values were not always around. I didn't know of their existence until recently, and as a result, I didn't always use those sites."

This is you acknowledging the facts but at the same time trying to word them in a way that you feel you kept your pride. Now to the part that matters. As you said, They weren't always there. But now they are. And now changes need to be made and adapted.

You can't force everyone to start with living in caves just because that's how it all started for players before us in the Path of Evolution, So, as tools like the talent calculator etc appear in the world, so must balances which are created with the emergence of other factors.

You can't pretend that the tools affect the game, DRASTICALLY. Which can mean the difference between someone getting thru Merciless in 20 hours, or someone rerolling a dozen times before even hitting merc. So you must consider it a part of the game now. And build the game around it, because a big part of the community uses it which impacts their Game play, time played, time spent grinding ass, etc.

Do you want it to be like this : "start using the tools or be doomed to eternal grind unless you find a build .






CONFORM OR DIE .............(or reroll).(or orbs... fuck them)

"

Nurvus wrote:

Here are a few facts:
- Your character progress is very slow in early game - in terms of passives, skill combos and gear.
- You level up alot faster than you gear up
- Game difficulty increases exponentially (this is fine)
- New players who take pleasure in figuring out their own builds will likely reroll alot as they learn the mechanics and challenges that await them. (this is fine)

Now here's the catch:
When do you reroll?
When you realize your build doesn't work.
And when does that happen?
Probably in late Normal or early Cruel.

Taking all of the above into consideration, here is the obvious conclusion:
New players spend ALOT of time playing, rerolling and replaying Path of Exile at levels that do NOT offer interesting/exciting gameplay, and that makes it VERY easy to have a WRONG idea of what the game has to offer.

GGG is not doing a good job at giving new players a reasonable idea of what awaits them if they endure the challenges until late game.
New players seem to be expected to be perfectionists who keep rerolling and playing characters that spend 90% of their playtime with no more than 2 supports per skill as well as super incomplete builds for the first 100 hours of that account's gameplay... seriously?
How does GGG expect to keep players interested?

GGG doesn't need White Knights.
They need players who provide meaningful feedback and help them polish the game as much as possible.

I don't mean to break your little world but, I've got a simple question for you.

Seeing how delicate this game is, with the various gems, gear choices, unique build enablers, and so on, it is fair to say that this game requires time investment to simply understand the types of builds and the options of each build.

Now, seeing that it requires time investment to understand and know everything, should players not play the game and find out what works best, usually by their own choices?

The only thing end game offers is a relatively finished build that is farming items and currency for future builds the player may want to play. Besides that, the only reason to play is to really max out your character. If you've reached this point, it's extremely easy to purchase all of the good leveling uniques and power level through to about 40 without using non-unique items. By this time, the player also has been on the forums and knows how to make an acceptable build and has the ability to rectify any problems through farming.

This game is not noob friendly. I don't think it's meant to be. Eve: Online isn't noob friendly. I don't think that is meant to be noob friendly, either.

GGG doesn't need white knights, nor does it need anyone telling them to simplify their game to make it noob friendly. Being Diablo-esk is deterring enough for most video gamers.

Vile....

Hope you .... up your build again and .... off.

"

Mammatus wrote:

Vile....

Hope you .... up your build again and .... off.

Reset inc